Concerning behaviour 5yr old daughter

[Magenta1234]

Hi, I’d really appreciate some advice and guidance. I genuinely feel lost and not sure on next steps as she displays challenging behaviour at home and anxious tendencies at school. So school not really helping as behaviours not being seen..

our dd is 5 years old and displaying challenging behaviour. She has always been very busy and in to everything but it’s definitely more noticeable now she’s older. So here goes...some of the more recent behaviours at home:
-frequent meltdowns over anything and everything. Hitting, scratching faces, spitting, toppling dining chairs and ornaments etc.
-destructive with everything, breaks toys, colours in barbies faces, breaks plants, draws on furniture etc—can’t turn my back for two minutes or shes up to something, pouring bubble Bath all over floor, putting toothpaste/cosmetics in soap etc. Anything she can get hands on and says she doesn’t know why she does it.
-issues getting dressed everyday, will only wear dark leggings and t shirts. Then we have issues with them being too long/short/baggy/tight and same with socks. Resulting in meltdowns over the smallest issue.
-wouldn’t take old clothes off last weekend and went to bed with clothes she wore all day. Had to spend all next day trying to get them off her- resulting in meltdown.
-is really busy at home, jumping over sofa, doing flips over back of sofa, climbing. If I tell her not to do something she will do it.
-caught her weeing under kitchen table this week and realised she had done it before and we thought it was the dog! Said she didn’t know why she done it. We can’t understand why she did this.
-used scissors to cut clothes and denied it.
-meltdowns after school over the most basic thing, taking seatbelt off, refusing to put it on etc.
-doesn’t want me to talk to her in front of other people, doesn’t like any attention on herself. If a shopkeeper tries to talk to her she gets anxious, hides has meltdown again.
-shopping is horrendous, jumps and hangs from trolly, swinging upside down.
-refuses to go to parties, last time she sat on my lap and refused to mix with anyone. If any parent spoke to her she’d hide her face.
-had meltdown in ballet as another unknown adult was in the room.
-anxious going to school, bad belly and trouble leaving me.
-this is the thing though, no behaviour issues in school! She is anxious and has trouble making friends but behaviour is ok.
-when I collect her she doesn’t like me talking to her or me drawing attention to her.

She is a very intelligent 5 year old, is reading and above average academically.

Sorry it’s so long, I could keep going but would be here all night. Any advice or guidance would be great. Do you think possible adhd/asd? I feel so sad for her and want to try to help make home life better for her and her siblings 😞😢

Have you asked school how she is there? What have they said in reports?

no concerns from school at all other than anxious leaving me in mornings. I do feel she is holding everything in all day and letting loose on me, it feels that way anyway. She could be masking but the behaviours seem to be so extreme between home and school?

Hi OP it sounds like your child is masking at school then exploding at home in her safe space with you.
mu child was similar and now on the pathway for asd assessment.

Has the school sendco been involved to observe your child at all?

Could be worth looking into food allergies. In particular let her have only water to drink and avoid any ready-meal type things.

This is the SECOND time I’ve seen someone blame neurodivergent behaviours on ready meals. What absolute bollocks.

OP, I see a lot of red flags for possible ADHD and autism. Sensory issues, meltdowns, impulsive behaviours etc. I think you need to talk all this through with a paediatrician.

Do you think it would be this extreme, the behaviour is so horrendous at home at the moment and no issues in class?
ive had an initial discussion with the senco who suggested I have a conversation with the schools CAMHS link but not sure what they’d be able to do to support?

Definitely sounds like she is masking. Ask the Dr to make a referral. My daughter was diagnosed with adhd but she was displaying some behaviours at school also. Good luck.

Sound to me like ADHD in girls . I suggest you find a referral and get her tested

Poor little thing and poor you too! Must be so hard to remember she's not being naughty but is just totally overwhelmed. You sound like a great mum, and I agree possible ADHD/ASD. x

Thank you so much for this reply and taking the time, it really does help when you talk to others with similar issues.
Some really useful tips, thank you 🙏🏻
It is do emotionally and physically demanding, I’m struggling to get into work each morning and then I’m not in the right frame of mind and the impact on the whole household is enormous. My two older girls 13 and 15 want to avoid anything to do with her and lock themselves in their bedroom most of the time when at home because if they refuse to play or do something she doesn’t like she’ll go into a rage. The thing with the clothes though, I can’t physically get her changed and the outcome would be horrendous, I feel I’m always walking on eggshells to avoid a meltdown and I know this isn’t good parenting.
After the meltdown she also doesn’t seem to have any empathy and any sorry is simply to get her own way. When trying to talk through what happened/feelings after a major meltdown she can’t focus and her attention, and is onto something else straight away ‘can I have a biscuit etc.’ Like it didn’t happen.
Trying to get her to groups is a real challenge because she is so anxious, ballet /dance each week is a struggle and often end in tears. I laughed at your border collie comment as that’s what we refer to it like (in a loving way of course), we need to get out and burn off any energy and she’s at her happiest covered in mud, zooming on her bike and climbing trees. The getting out and back is the hard bit!
im definitely going to look at some of the resources you suggested, thank you x

I would ask the school or GP to make a referral for ASD/ADHD assessment OP. There are many behaviours that are the same as my DD who is also 5 and diagnosed with ASD in December last year. She is also brilliant at school, (we also had issues with being very anxious to go to school though) she masks well but the effort of keeping it in all day means she has meltdowns after school. The school made the referral in our case because she would be so anxious at drop off she would scream for ages once there, she really struggles with transition times and changes to routine. She also has lots of sensory issues with noise (wouldn’t go in the dining hall at all and now wears ear defenders).

In the meantime I would look at weighted blankets and other sensory equipment which can reduce meltdowns. With DD I can spot when she’s nearing meltdown (usually when somethings going ‘wrong’) and take her off to a quiet spot and she likes to squeeze playdoh or a stress ball, usually removing her from wherever the trigger is and providing a distraction helps to stop it escalating.

DD does the same with her clothes as well and often goes to bed in an outfit she’s had on in the day. Honestly if it’s not dirty I just let her. With ASD there often seems to us like there’s no reason for the behaviour but there is. If DD is comfortable in an outfit she often doesn’t want to change as the new clothes may not feel the same, and it’s another things ‘changing’ which she doesn’t like.

Try ear defenders when shopping, it may help calm her, supermarkets are a nightmare for sensory overload.

And I’d remove things like scissors and pens (just leave pencils/crayons in reach). Get a child lock for bathroom products etc. Basically baby proof. A child with ASD or ADHD that’s had to mask all day and then becomes dysregulated at home has no impulse control, it’s easier to remove temptations out of their way. And tney literally do not know why they’ve done something they know is wrong, they can’t explain it.

Definitely push for assessment, although waiting lists are long so if you can afford it I would consider going private. Caudwell children’s charity is a good start, you can pay for an ASD assessment through them (if your household income is below £45k they can help with funding it as well).

I have a friend with two DC with severe ADHD....(and ultimately you just need to pay for an assessment to get one quickly they take a while through the NHS).

She has a big climbing frame, swing, and hot tub (blow up variety) in the garden, and the kids are out there climbing, swinging, splashing etc etc daily winter and summer. The walk loads, to get the kids out of the house and away from destructive behaviours.

She limits the toys, removes so there are (say) 5 things to play with, then introduces new stuff when they are too broken. She picks things up in charity shops and from friends who have outgrown stuff and doesn't worry about the destruction.

Clothing - you just have to buy multiple pairs of the same legging, pants, socks and t-shirt that fit and she likes and change her into a new set when dirty. Remove all clothes which don't fit. It's quite common in children, even with no diagnosis to like one comfy type or set of clothes. My teen just has 5 pairs of the same jeans and (soft) superdry t-shirts...

What nonsense

Sounds like you have some really used strategies that work for you little one. I feel like I’m at the stage where I realise this is more than normal tantrums and ‘naughtiness’ and the normal time out step and consequences are not working. I feel like I’ve been in denial and caused the problem to escalate. Your post is so motivating and I can see so many changes I can make, love the idea of cosy corner with beanbag and she definitely starts getting extremely defiant and running around etc. before a meltdown!

I definitely think this meets the threshold for an assessment. Try keeping a diary of events for a couple of weeks before seeing GP so you can be clear about concerns. It may take a while to get a referral and an assessment.

Don't worry about the lack of empathy when she does something destructive. That's pretty typical for all 5 yr olds. She knows she has done something wrong but was doing it yo cope with some other big feeling like anxiety or sensory overload. She can't explain that to you. But neither ADHD or autism are linked to a lack of awareness of other people's feelings in the long-term.

I'm an adult psychologist I don't do children. But good advice above about managing sensory distress.

With my OH, son and now grandson school was to be endured all that structure. My OH goes fishing, cycling, my son surfing or cycling. My grandson rugby, cricket, swimming. They have so much pent up energy . I remember after school I'd try and take them to the park, beach, woods anywhere they could run free. I do this with my grandson. I've always thought that they were like dogs.

Worth pursuing an ASD/ADHD assessment. My daughter has ASD and was a lot like this when she was younger. Now we have good support at school and it has led to much calmer behaviour at home.

Have you looked into SPD? It seems to me she is over sensory (with clothing etc) and sensory seeking behaviour. This can offer run alongside other neurodivergent diagnosis. Looking into this may help come up with some ways to help until you can get professionals as it’s a fairly long wait. Hope you can get to the bottom of this op, it sounds like a challenging time for your family.

I think diet is still worth looking into. It is probably just a very small part of the puzzle. But should still be acknowledged as a piece of it.

Definitely go to your GP op with the diary that PP have discussed.

Yes, definitely.
The clothes, seat belt issue sounds tactile sensory avoidance.
Lots of classic ASD in girls, sounding behaviours. Some of the things she is reacting to can be addressed. Look round your house, her room (at her eye level) , is it overly visually stimulating. Often ASD children need 1 totally blank, bare wall at least to help calm cognitive activity. Have a minimal, predictable environment of low arousal, few choices for her, 1 choice/option being enjoyable for her, what sensory feedback is she seeking in her behaviour. Try to step back and ask yourself, what is she gaining from the behaviours, is it noise feedback or is there too much noise in her environment, try ear defenders at home/in car. Lessen some of the 'sensory info' she needs to process. It can easily overwhelm. If you just log a typical day and note what is happening immediately before difficulties, what are triggers.... What happens as a result ie. What do you do, do you hug, do you lift her out of situation, do you give a treat etc, you might be able to identify what the 'need' is at these times and address that. Look at a block of time and note keypoints, when she ate & drank water, slept, had physical comfort, behaved in a highly aroused way, sensory seeking/avoiding etc. Some of it might help, it sounds like you'd be helped by an assessment for ASD/ADHD but in meantime try to audit your environment. It's common for girls to seemingly be fine at school and meltdown at home but that tends to be that school possibly not aware of finer triggers and reactions or be well versed in ASN.

Here to agree with others, sounds like she's masking at school. Start filming the behaviours and ask for a paeds referral through GP, if that's the route in your area, in Suffolk where I am I make referrals to Barnados as SENCO.