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What will happen to all the ten year old electric cars?

137 replies

Theeaglesoared · 07/05/2023 10:09

I'm thinking of buying an electric car. The price of second hand EVs has plummeted in recent months so I could now get a 1-2 year old EV for the same price as its petrol equivalent.

All well and good but it got me thinking: the batteries in EVs wear out after 100,000 miles or 10 years. A replacement battery is currently around £8000.

But will owners really replace the battery? On a 10 year old car? I can't see it happening. So are we going to see loads of cars effectively dumped in 10 years' time?

It seems massively bad for the environment but I can't find the answer to this anywhere! It probably won't put me off buying an EV (I don't want to lease for various reasons) but I am interested, because I assume my car will be worthless in a few years.

If anyone out there is in the car industry I'd love to hear your views.

OP posts:
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Theeaglesoared · 07/05/2023 22:58

This has been a really interesting read. Thank you everyone, for your input. I've learned a lot. Still don't know whether to buy an EV though! I guess there's no right or wrong answer.

OP posts:
Username84 · 09/05/2023 16:28

I find it interesting the way government research seems to be moving away from EV cars to transport options. If you combine things like hydrogen buses and villages (pilots ongoing, in one case powered by landfill) with the 15 minute towns where bikes and walking are a great option and with things like trains (e.g. HS2) you shouldn't actually need a direct 1:1 replacement of ICE for EV. Home working helps too. Hydrogen doesn't solve the problem either but at least it's smaller batteries.

Part of the issue is so many decision makers don't understand the needs of the people buying their cars that well so they make what they want to have, not what their customers want. Not that the customers actually necessarily know what they want either - to paraphrase Henry Ford you ask people what they want they'll ask for a faster horse.

BumpyaDaisyevna · 09/05/2023 16:52

My BMW i3 has done 108000 miles and I am expecting it to keep going. People on a forum I am on for i3 owners regularly have them doing over 200,000

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

givemecoffeenow · 09/05/2023 17:12

DahliaBlue · 07/05/2023 10:20

This worries me too about EVs. Are they really better for the environment in the long run as each car will have a much shorter life.

This is why I don’t understand why electric cars are better environmentally… I think we will be just swapping one problem for a potentially worse problem in the long term.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 09/05/2023 17:22

There is a big concern about infrastructure , especially bridges, as electric cars become more widespread. They are much heavier than petrol or Diesel engined vehicles, so cause more damage to roads, especially more exposed surfaces.

gogohmm · 09/05/2023 17:32

@NurseCranesRolodex for those of us not living in cities this simply isn't viable. I cannot cycle to work (1:4 hill, bendy, super dangerous) and public transport takes 1 hour 45 minutes (14 minute car journey). You simply cannot run buses in every direction rurally, they run towards the city. EV's or more realistically hybrids are perfect for us

gogohmm · 09/05/2023 17:34

For now though I'm sticking with my petrol car, I do 15 miles a day at circa 50 mph

ImInACage · 09/05/2023 17:43

I think they'd be better off making battery stations instead of charging stations. Make the battery really easy to replace, so that when you drive into a forecourt, you pop one empty battery out and replace with a full one. The empty battery then gets checked and charged for someone else to use. You pay for the charge, like you would a tank of fuel. It would save on the amount of cars that will inevitably end up being dumped due to the price of batteries.

gamerchick · 09/05/2023 17:46

Have to say I love the idea of a run the house battery..!

Wednesdaysotherchild · 09/05/2023 17:48

Our EV is 8 years old and the batteries are still as good when we got it secondhand in its second year. We regularly travel long distances in it too. There’s a lot of misinformation about EVs and suspect a lot of people are just scared of change.

AlltheFs · 09/05/2023 17:50

ImInACage · 09/05/2023 17:43

I think they'd be better off making battery stations instead of charging stations. Make the battery really easy to replace, so that when you drive into a forecourt, you pop one empty battery out and replace with a full one. The empty battery then gets checked and charged for someone else to use. You pay for the charge, like you would a tank of fuel. It would save on the amount of cars that will inevitably end up being dumped due to the price of batteries.

Have you seen the size of an EV battery?!
Even with improved tech they aren’t going to be that small. Plus different cars require different types and sizes.
You need a specifically trained mechanic to work on an EV, you can’t just fuck about with electrics.

justasking111 · 09/05/2023 17:52

I sat in a vintage Morgan the other day. Restored 15k it was beautiful. Unfortunately I couldn't reach the pedals. Then sat in a 17 year old BMW3SERIES 44k miles similar price. My own mini convertible 17 years old has done 42k miles.

Why are these cars worse than electric cars which are so dirty environment wise to make?

ImInACage · 09/05/2023 17:55

@AlltheFs I have no idea to be honest, but I like the idea of it, maybe way in the future they'll be able to invent a much smaller battery that can pop in and out. I know it's never work for now, but if someone didn't think up new ideas, nothing would ever be invented!

Anotherusernameagainitseems · 09/05/2023 18:03

All children going to their local school would help and after-school activities based at schools will help too. More people working from home. Local food. Lottery for foreign holidays with those with relatives abroad given an extra boost to win. Flexible holiday to take into account 2 or 3 day train journeys.

justasking111 · 09/05/2023 18:18

Anotherusernameagainitseems · 09/05/2023 18:03

All children going to their local school would help and after-school activities based at schools will help too. More people working from home. Local food. Lottery for foreign holidays with those with relatives abroad given an extra boost to win. Flexible holiday to take into account 2 or 3 day train journeys.

Wrong thread @Anotherusernameagainitseems ???

Aerielview · 09/05/2023 18:32

A man in Ireland has just been quoted €19000, plus VAT, to replace the battery on his seven year old Nissan Leaf!

DogInATent · 09/05/2023 18:52

Aerielview · 09/05/2023 18:32

A man in Ireland has just been quoted €19000, plus VAT, to replace the battery on his seven year old Nissan Leaf!

Source?

DogInATent · 09/05/2023 18:54

Ah, Irish Times article behind a paywall.

Kpo58 · 09/05/2023 19:04

I'm hoping that the future will involve bicycles, better public transport for all and car clubs rather than individual ownership.

GlitterSquid · 09/05/2023 19:11

Love all these hand wringing stories of lithium and cobalt mining woes....typed using smart phones. (The batteries in which are biggest consumer of rare earth minerals on the planet)

Aerielview · 09/05/2023 19:16

@DogInATent Yes, it's an article from yesterday's Irish Times. I'll copy and paste it below as it is behind a paywall.

What happens when your EV battery finally runs out of power?
In the middle of last month an Irish Times reader called John Russell wrote a letter to the Editor which sparked something that veered between mild concern and outright consternation among many owners, would-be owners and never-will-be owners of electric vehicles.

“We have been driving a Nissan Leaf for the past seven years and have travelled a total distance of 155,000km,” he wrote. “Over those years, myself and my wife have become EV champions. Nissan just quoted me for a replacement battery: €19,000, plus VAT, excluding labour! We are now reconsidering our position as EV champions!”

The idea that someone might buy a new car only to be hit with such a shocking cost seven years down the road left some people flabbergasted and others unsurprised.
“It has been obvious for some time that EVs ought to be regarded as more like domestic appliances than traditional cars – that is, used until they are defunct and then replaced, as with a fridge or cooker,” wrote one reader who said the idea of a replacement battery made no economic sense.

Others suggested that only the dead battery cells in the Leaf needed replacing which would cut the cost.
“Factoring in a five-figure sum for replacement batteries after the warranty expires [usually after seven or eight years], radically alters the economics of purchasing a used EV for many motorists,” wrote another correspondent.

Pricewatch took an interest in the debate – not least because the writer is a proud owner of a relatively new EV – so decided to make contact with the man who started the debate to find out more.

“Until the Nissan Leaf I had never bought a new car, my life,” he says.
He was prompted to buy it for environmental reasons and to save money on fuel and maintenance costs. Russell is also an engineer and the make-up of such vehicles appeals to him. “The average diesel car has something like 30,000 moving parts and an electric car has about 3,000 moving parts. That’s huge, from an engineering point of view. You have less metal rubbing up against metal, something which is never very good.”
He says that when he took the plunge, there was some chatter about the cost of replacement batteries with the figure being bandied about coming in at about €10,000. “I had done the sums and was thinking the cost of batteries would probably come down in price so if the battery wore out eventually it would be no problem.”
That made the news from his garage more difficult to take.
He says the range of his EV has fallen to about 75 per cent of what it once was which means he and his wife can get little more than 100km out of a full charge. They live in Kildare so can usually get to and from Dublin city without difficulty. “But driving to and from the airport, you have to take it easy and range anxiety kicks in.”
The idea of driving to Kerry in the car, meanwhile, is pretty much off the table.

Russell has long been driven by environmentalism and eked 400,000km out of his previous car. “What’s the most environmentally friendly car you can have?” he asks. “The one in your driveway.”
He is still unsure what to do next. Apart from the battery issues, “the thing is perfect. It’s an electric motor so it’s basically a forklift truck. I have the same brake pads as when I bought it and all it has cost is the €120 we pay for a service each year.”
He might be able to get a battery extender which will swallow up his boot but getting a second-hand battery is proving tricky because the supply isn’t there.
He says if he doesn’t have to fork out 19 grand he will be “quids in” on his purchase. “But if I end up paying €19,000 plus VAT, there is no way I will be quids in but in terms of how I feel, I feel better, I’ve done something for the environment and that is good but this charge is just a sting in the tail.”

Electric vehicles – trouble ahead?

Replacement battery not included

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/2023/04/19/electric-vehicles-trouble-ahead/

NannyGythaOgg · 09/05/2023 19:18

Hydrogen cars in the future.
Already available - but technology not ready for mass production yet.

DogInATent · 09/05/2023 19:51

NannyGythaOgg · 09/05/2023 19:18

Hydrogen cars in the future.
Already available - but technology not ready for mass production yet.

Hydrogen is only the desired future if you're an energy company with a huge infrastructure network and an insatiable desire for profit.

DiscoBeat · 09/05/2023 19:53

the batteries in EVs wear out after 100,000 miles or 10 years.
I hope that's not true! I have a EV and it's on almost 40k miles now (just turned 3 years old).