Sons fighting each other

[Olyvia]

I’m a single parent with sons 14 and 11. They can both be annoying but generally good kids, no trouble at school, nice friends etc. no fighting outside the home. ds1 has some asd traits but no diagnosis, but finds it hard to move on when he feels he’s been wronged.

They have always fought but probabl like normal siblings. But recently ds1 has been so angry with ds2 when ds2 hits or annoys ds1. Shouting and trying to get into ds2 room, usually after ds2 annoyed ds1 then run away. I’m not physically strong enough to separate them. I’m worried ds1 will beat up ds2. Ds2 winds up ds1 though, but then seems terrified at the reaction

I don’t know what to do. I worry ds2 will be harmed, being barricaded in his room and being shouted at is not good. Eventually ds1 calms down and gives up but it am be over 1 hour . I try to get ds1 to leave ds2 alone but he’s so angry he ignores me.

Have you asked school to help - they should support eg with the ELSA providing anger management skills

If the younger one winds up the older one then he's bringing it on himself to an extent. He could stop that - find something else to amuse himself.

I will try ELSA, thanks. Don’t want to involve the school yet as it only happens at home between the 2 of them

The younger one does ring it on himself! But he’s much smaller than ds1 and ds1 overreacts

I don’t know what happens behind closed doors in other homes. Perhaps this not unusual. I just feel worried I’m letting them down, ds2 might remember the rages and ask why I could stop them

*couldn’t not could

They have always fought but probabl like normal siblings. This normalisation of fighting amongst siblings is not right.

After a certain age kids fight in two situations - where it is tolerated by parents, or where there are additional needs (emotional or behavioural).

ds1 has some asd traits but no diagnosis, but finds it hard to move on when he feels he’s been wronged. it sounds like you need to get to the bottom of this, because you could be excusing/minimising bad behaviour, or he may need more support.

You have to protect both the children. The environment sounds really stressful.

Can you set grounds rules around disengagement?

This is not right, imo.

The whole situation needs to be defused, don't blame one person.

Sorry, I don’t think it is normal for siblings to fight at all.

I don’t want to tolerate it. Asd diagnosis is 4 year wait in our area, I guess we could join the list though but he manages fine outside the home . I will try and set ground rules when they are both calm. Ds1 just seems to get really wound up and loses it

They don’t fight at school. But they see others fighting so for them I guess it is normalised :(

"ds1 has been so angry with ds2 when ds2 hits or annoys ds1"

Surely the thing that needs to change is DS2 hitting or annoying his brother on purpose? He's going to learn if you play with fire you're going to get burnt.

what sort of support would an asd diagnosis bring? Perhaps I could try and access something privately to help ds1, counselling? I just want them to get on better. They are becoming young men and it is getting harder for me to intervene effectively

@rainraingoawaay yeah, I do try and stop ds2. Often I am not there when it happens though, I might be cooking or something. They argue say over a gaming device , then ds2 might hit ds1 and run away

It is normalised by you not being extremely strict about ANY physical contact in either direction.

If I had seen any of mine hit the other I would have given a very strict consequence and I described hitting as assault. It is assault.

Too many parents accept sibling-sibling violence.

Well then . DS2 needs to learn that winding people up is not a good idea.

The same he will have to learn not to start on a stranger in the street because they don't know how they'll react.

Something tells me he doesn't do this though so knows exactly what he's doing to his brother. Especially if he knows you then spend the time telling DS1 to calm down. He'll see that as his brother being at fault.

Personally as long as you don't think they'll be serious injury I'd allow ds2 to get hit by ds1. Perhaps he'll stop then?

What are the consequences for them doing this?

This.
there is too much emphasis on ds1, who is trying to fight back. Ds2 needs to stop, simple.

Thanks for all the comments. Interesting some have sympathy for ds1. What tends to happen is I might start off with some sympathy for ds1 but then I lose all sympathy as ds1 is angry and shouting for so long and I just want it to stop. Ds1 says things like, “I’ll only stop if I get an apology”. But I know ds2 won’t apologise and usually I am not even sure what has happened to trigger it all as I’m elsewhere in the house.

I can speak to ds2, tell him hitting never acceptable. He will no doubt blame ds1, ds1 can be bossy/overbearing

Consequences is no tech time for a few days

This may be extreme, but maybe for a while they need to be in different areas of the house when you are busy, so DS1 upstairs, DS2 downstairs.

Ds2 needs to stop winding up ds1

Well I certainly have sympathy for the older one having been in a very similar dynamic when growing up. Younger brother constantly winding me up until I lost my temper and lashed out.

We don't speak these days. I have a lifelong loathing of bullies who take pleasure in upsetting others.

My sympathy is with DS1. DS2 sounds a PITA and can't take the consequences.