Dd not getting the support in school because of disruption in class.

[Userno363637363736362223]

I will try and keep it short.

DD 8 has additional needs, she is in year 3 and has an EHC plan, she is speech delayed, has gross motor skill delays (likely dyspraxia but no formal diagnosis) and learning delays as well as sow other things going on. I am certain she is on the spectrum, although no one will take me seriously. She has some sensory needs & auditory processing issues but my biggest concern is her attainment at school, progress is slow. She needs help in lessons with understanding tasks, breaking things down into smaller steps and guidance with her work. Without support in lessons she really cannot access the curriculum. She also needs help with dressing at times. It’s all covered in her EHC plan. As well as this she should be doing daily speech and language tasks as outlined in her EHC plan.

despite her struggles she loves school, is sociable and has some lovely friends. She is compliant and eager to please and called a delight by everyone that knows her, she has no behavioural issues, she is compliant and fits in well with her class and the mainstream environment.

so what’s the problem? Dd should be getting pretty much 1:1 in lessons in the morning but is not because there’s children in her class that are very disruptive. I’m not an asshole, I know these kids could be neurodivergent themselves and struggles, I know their mums are probably at their wits end but there’s a few they are disruptive. There’s one in particular who has been very violent towards staff and other children and the class have had to be evacuated into the playground. It has really heightened over the last few months.

dd has told me she isn’t getting much help as the TA she’s meant to have (there’s 2 TA’s in the morning) is outside all morning with a couple of the kids who are struggling.

the Ta was hired permanently at the school to mainly support dd in the mornings with her EHC plan but the Ta has confided in someone saying she is know longer happy as she’s spending so much time with a very explosive child. Said child has attacked teachers and students etc. he clearly needs supervising but at the cost of dd getting support? Surely the school has to find someone else to help in that class?

I know schools don’t have enough staff, I know so many kids are struggling. I know that the exploding children are clearly struggling and their mums are probably at their wits end but because dd is compliant she’s going under the radar and not achieving much in lessons.

what am I meant to say, think or do about this? Is there much I can say?

Yes you're right, she should be getting her 1:1 support, and yes you're right, the explosive child needs someone to support them and keep them/others safe and yes, this is yet another example of the cutbacks from this our oh so wonderful government. Please write to your MP - your child's teachers / school will be doing their best with budgets that are far too small for what is needed.

In my experience, unless you move your DD to a specialist private school, she won't get any of this in primary school. It'll get a lot worse in the coming years.

Unfortunately allocated hours towards a child with learning difficulties means absolutely nothing if there's another child in the class smashing things and throwing chairs across the room. They need removing, and they need an extra body to go with them.

Often teachers only have one other adult with them, some not at all.

How many hours 1:1 does her EHCP say she should be getting? The difficulty will be proving that she doesn't get this, but you are right. If she has hours on her EHCP, they are legally hers and are breaking the law not to provide them.

It is hard though if she has 2 hours per morning and the school say she's getting that. You can ask to meet the SENCO to discuss and you could look at changing the EHCP to include more detail about exactly when the support should be.

What does her EHC actually say about 1 1? If it just says access to support then you do not have a leg to stand on.

What @Disneyblueeyes said. It doesn’t matter if you have a TA allocated, the disruptive kids will take their attention and time away from your DD. I’ve seen it happen so many times. It’s happening in 2 primary school classes at my school right now, and I work at a relatively good school.

I’m sorry OP, I don’t really have a solution for you. Changing schools or homeschooling is probably the only viable option, but I’m not sure if either is possible for you.

Is the provision detailed, specified and quantified in F? With no woolly or vague wording such as “access to”, “would benefit from”, “or equivalent”, “opportunities for”, “regular”…

If it is detailed, specified and quantified email the HT reminding them the EHCP is a legal document and the provision in F must be provided. Also email LA’s Director of Children’s Services informing them of the situation and reminding them they are ultimately responsible for ensuring provision in F is provided. Then if the situation continues email again threatening judicial review. If that fails contact SOSSEN for help with a pre-action letter.

If F is vague and woolly then it cannot be enforced. In this case you should request an early review in order to tighten the wording up.

Contact your child’s LA SEND lead worker and explain the problem. The LA is ultimately responsible for ensuring the EHCP is implemented and can meet with the school to work out what needs to be done to properly support her. As others have said make sure the 1 to 1 hours are specified and if not request an review to get it changed.

Have you considered specialist provision? Perhaps a mainstream with a resource base, or a specialist school. She would probably make much better progress in an environment tailored to her needs with fully trained and experienced staff.

Unfortunately the school will be given little to no support for an explosive child, other than being told to evacuate the class and leave an adult with them/have an adult remove them. Our LA sent out a blanket email in October saying there were no alternative placement places available across the whole county and thus not to apply.

This is only going to get worse over the next few years. It’s soul destroying looking at the children in your class that you could make a real difference to, then not getting anywhere near them because you’re dealing with severe behavioural/safeguarding/mental health issues.

This is not a situation limited to deprived areas, this is happening in highly rated affluent primaries across the country.

Hopefully there will be a change of government at the next election and teachers can get back to teaching.

Sadly, it isn't likely that the OP will be able to access any alternative or specialist provision. In my LA, all SEND hubs are full. They would usually work to support children but can't because the places are taken by primary children who have been permanently excluded.
No special school places either. LA’s need to apply for funding and permission from the DfE to open a school. Once this is in place an academy trust has to be found. In my LA, permission given 4 years ago for a new specialist school, but no academy trust interested. Since, permission hasn't been given for any others ( in another area of the county).
There are so many more children with very high needs in school at the minute. Schools are struggling to meet need. Support not accessible externally. Staff leaving as the stresses are so great. Leaders not able to develop schools because they are ‘firefighting’.

Absolute crisis point, like I've never known before

It is not at all fair to your DD to not get her entitlement needs met, but I'm sorry that this is the norm and has been for years.

I no longer work in teaching, but it really upset me when I was in a school as a supply teacher for a few weeks in 2017, to see the decline in an autistic child in a mixed Year 1/2 class, whom I had previously taught in a Nursery school in the area, and it was all down to not getting any of the TA help his EHCP entitled him to.😥

This is a prime example of why people go private when they can, all the best op

I will also add as the SEND system falls apart, parents can take the LA to tribunal for specialist places. The tribunal will find in the parents favour and the LA will be duty bound to find a place. Often this will be through private provision and including charges to transport the child, can cost the LA (taxpayer) a huge amount. It is not unusual for this to be in excess if £100,000 per child per year.

You can see the cycle, money out if the system to private companies, less money within the system, less children supported.

As I said above crisis point.

OP is likely to have to appeal, but securing an ARP or SS placement can be possible. Unless the school is wholly independent the LA must name the school unless the LA can prove:
-The setting is unsuitable for the age, ability, aptitude or special educational needs (“SEN”) of the child or young person; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the provision of efficient education for others; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the efficient use of resources.

On its own being ‘full’ is not enough of a reason to refuse to name parental preference. The LA has to prove the school is so full admitting DC is incompatible. Obviously there comes a point where they can do this, but the bar is high, far higher than many LAs admit. It is more than an “adverse effect”, “impact on” or “prejudicial to”. Unless the school is wholly independent the LA can, and must, name the school regardless of the school’s objections unless the LA can prove one of the reasons above. The vast majority of appeals are successful.

X-post. I’m a slow typer.

My child wasn’t get the 1-1 support that he was receiving funding for. I decided to the get the EHCP tightened as the 1-1 hours were not specified. During the process I decided that if I was going to fight I may as well push it as far as possible and ended up with an independent specialist provision.
The situation is dire at the moment and you need to be ‘that parent’ who pushes and doesn’t worry about the other children.

Just to add my DS was in the same situation, his 1-1 was being used primarily for a more disruptive child who was yet receiving any additional funding/EHCP.

Is there no chance that the violent, disruptive child will be permanently excluded? Clearly that child should not be in a mainstream setting.

Even if they are excluded there will be someone else to take their place. Maybe not quite so bad but bad enough to pull attention and resources. That's the way British state schools are and have been for ages. I remember even in my A-level maths class (ie everyone in that class had actively chosen to be there, studying maths) the disruption was so bad that I only learnt anything during our "revision weeks" where I could watch YouTube videos on how to differentiate and integrate at home in peace. I went from achieving an E to an A in those weeks.

there is basically no budget for anything. We had an explosive and violent child in our school - he broke a colleagues ribs and smashed up two glass doors. We couldn’t get any funding for a 1 to 1 for him, and the class TA was pulled from helping the two in the class who had 1 to 1 support in their plan, to basically minding this kid so he didn’t hurt himself or others. There was no place in a special school - our LA has said there are no new places this year so don’t bother making any referrals until September and even then don’t hold your breath.

we managed to get him a managed move to another school with a greater staff / student ratio - passing the buck on for a bit I guess. Schools hands are tied and the system is collapsing.

if you can afford it, look for independent provision. If not, I’m really sorry for your daughter but there’s probably very little you can do.

Welcome to my world.

I teach English and Maths in FE and the majority of learners in my classes have EHCPs and/or additional learning needs. If I'm lucky, I get one Learning Support Assistant per session of fifteen or so students. They're usual meant to be one-to-one with a particular learner, but between us we try to support everyone who needs it.

The problem is that we have to spend so much time dealing with the disruptive students - all of them with additional needs - that we have no time for anyone else. If you need support and you're shy, withdrawn or just decently behaved, you get very little help because we're too busy dealing with behaviour that wrecks everyone's learning. And we're not just talking a bit of horse-play - we're talking squaring-up, rape threats, threats of violence, screaming and trashing furniture and resources and things being thrown (I was off work for a week last term because a student threw a carbon monoxide monitor at me which split my head and gave me mild concussion). I don't work in a specialised setting, by the way - this is now the norm in further education.

I feel most sorry for the quiet kids who need extra support. They've had to put up with this shit all through school and it's probably why they have to now retake their English and Maths. And it's happening all over again.

What do mangement do? Learning Agreements, meetings 'to clear the air', written apologies. And then the disruptors are straight back in class and the cycle goes on...

This sort of situation is why teachers are striking - absolutely no adult in that school will be feeling good about your DD's (and others') needs being neglected but what can they do with such a limited budget?

Please write to your MP as someone suggested. I'm sorry this is happening to your daughter and hope she is ok but as long as the government continue to starve school budgets and teacher training targets aren't met due to working conditions like you describe and inflation-reduced pay, nothing will get better for anyone. It feels so hopeless, sorry 😥

what can they do with such a limited budget?
No this is a cop out for the school.
They should NOT be using theOP's DD's budget!
Not the OP's problem.
If the school needs an adult to deal with the disruptive cold they need to find someone else -SLT?
This is piss poor management by a weak HT. Their job is to deal with budgets and off they can't manage on what they HG age then THEY need to demand more instead of trying to fudge it.

teacher training targets aren't met due to working conditions like you describe and inflation-reduced pay
????? Wrong thread? Cut and pasted to every education thread? This has nothing to do with teacher training 🤣

I have two DS with EHCPs and know lots of people who gave unfortunately had this issue. My neighbour had to move her DS in the end as she was so fed up with this happening.