Dd not getting the support in school because of disruption in class.

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I will try and keep it short.

DD 8 has additional needs, she is in year 3 and has an EHC plan, she is speech delayed, has gross motor skill delays (likely dyspraxia but no formal diagnosis) and learning delays as well as sow other things going on. I am certain she is on the spectrum, although no one will take me seriously. She has some sensory needs & auditory processing issues but my biggest concern is her attainment at school, progress is slow. She needs help in lessons with understanding tasks, breaking things down into smaller steps and guidance with her work. Without support in lessons she really cannot access the curriculum. She also needs help with dressing at times. It’s all covered in her EHC plan. As well as this she should be doing daily speech and language tasks as outlined in her EHC plan.

despite her struggles she loves school, is sociable and has some lovely friends. She is compliant and eager to please and called a delight by everyone that knows her, she has no behavioural issues, she is compliant and fits in well with her class and the mainstream environment.

so what’s the problem? Dd should be getting pretty much 1:1 in lessons in the morning but is not because there’s children in her class that are very disruptive. I’m not an asshole, I know these kids could be neurodivergent themselves and struggles, I know their mums are probably at their wits end but there’s a few they are disruptive. There’s one in particular who has been very violent towards staff and other children and the class have had to be evacuated into the playground. It has really heightened over the last few months.

dd has told me she isn’t getting much help as the TA she’s meant to have (there’s 2 TA’s in the morning) is outside all morning with a couple of the kids who are struggling.

the Ta was hired permanently at the school to mainly support dd in the mornings with her EHC plan but the Ta has confided in someone saying she is know longer happy as she’s spending so much time with a very explosive child. Said child has attacked teachers and students etc. he clearly needs supervising but at the cost of dd getting support? Surely the school has to find someone else to help in that class?

I know schools don’t have enough staff, I know so many kids are struggling. I know that the exploding children are clearly struggling and their mums are probably at their wits end but because dd is compliant she’s going under the radar and not achieving much in lessons.

what am I meant to say, think or do about this? Is there much I can say?

I'm a TA in a big secondary school and half our team have left because we are so fed up with this sort of situation. We are supposed to be supporting particular children but there are so many others with behavioural isssues that we get dragged into helping the school cope with those insead.

I've resigned also now. Way too many SEND children in mainstream school (not their fault, I know) way too many non SEND children with extremely poor behaviour and attitude. Lack of staff and then it's a vicious circle - staff can't cope so they leave, making it even harder for the staff who are still there to cope.

It's a long process to get a child permanently excluded and management are very reluctant to do it. Not sure exactly why but I think it reflects badly on the school with Ofsted or someone.

It happens rarely and only for violence. Most pupils are not physically violent but lots are very disruptive and verbally abusive when challenged. In my school at least, and we are considered the best in the borough!

This is what I wanted to say OP.

I hope you ehcp is well worded and you can enforce it with a pre-action letter.

If it isnt well worded this is a good time to review it and ensure it is.

No, if enough staff aren't trained and recruited, then there will be more and more problems with behaviour and support for all children. I'd have thought that's quite obvious.

Of course, the school should not be neglecting OP's daughter's EHCP identified support needs but literally what can they do if they don't have staff? Should the 1:1 TA ignore a potentially dangerous situation caused by dysregulated behaviour in another area of the room to stay by his/her student's side? I can just imagine a thread where someone's furious because their child was hit by a flying chair and the TA did nothing because they stayed with their allocated 1:1 student. You sound ignorant at best, goady and unpleasant at worst.

And this is why we strike. Everything about your scenario makes me feel sick. It isn't right. It isn't fair. Our schools and your child deserve better.

Unless there is another child with 1:1 detailed, specified and quantified in F they clearly do have the staff because there is a TA in the room. If 1:1 is detailed, specified and quantified in F the school should be using the TA to provide the child who is legally entitled to 1:1 with that support. If other DC need the same the school should be requesting EHCNAs for those pupils and supporting parents to appeal if necessary. They should not be failing to provide the 1:1 and leaving themselves and the LA open to legal proceedings.

Even if they didn’t have the TA in the room or they was another child legally entitled to 1:1 in the class the school should go back to the LA as it is the LA who is ultimately responsible for ensuring provision detailed, specified and quantified in F is provided.

im sorry to hear your Dd is being let down by current budget restrictions and her school. Im a teacher and suggest the following:

• check her ECHP for details
• formally request details of current provision & a visit to view her learning tools & resources (specifics may be listed in ECHP) for example, does your DD attend interventions outside of the normal learning environment?
• request information as to how many children in the class have an ECHP and staffing numbers in her class
• request a copy of all paperwork relating to your daughters provision from SENCO lead at school.

Places at s specialist school are like gold dust. Unless it’s a requirement in her ECHP she’s unlikely to get a place. There are huge waiting lists. At my school the children who are violent and aggressive have an ECHP requiring a 1.1 is with them at all times. This could be the case at your DDs school. If so, it seems there aren’t enough staff in your DDs class. You can ask the SENCO if they will be looking to hire additional staff to ensure ratios are correct and all ECHP requirements are met. if they fail to provide any requisite support for DD and confirm this situation will continue you need to take this further. I would suggest the Board of Governors alongside your Local Authory. As others have mentioned your local MP should be able to assist you. Goid luck and I hope you can sort this situation quickly and easily.

A problem we have now in our school is that we literally don't have enough TAs. We can't recruit them either - people leave and don't get replaced despite multiple adverts.
So we end up in a situation where there are several pupils with ECHPs in one class with 1 TA where there used to be 3 or 4 TAs.

This. There is probably less impact contacting the teachers and SENCO, you will need to go to the top and then escalate further if this doesn't work. I had this going on for some years - took me a while to realise. The problematic child was removed to an internal support unit for a while but kept running back to the classroom and then kicking and biting staff. Eventually I moved my DC and it has taken him several years to catch up on what was three years in primary of a real absence of support and learning. There were reasons why it was very difficult to remove said child to a more appropriate setting and the support in school just wasn't enough.

Then the school should go back to the LA as it is them who is ultimately responsible for provision detailed, specified and quantified in F. Funding/wages isn’t the only problem, so it won’t solve everything but the LA can increase the funding. I have supported hundreds of parents to enforce their DC’s EHCP, including in many cases where the school &/or LA claim they can’t recruit. In every case an appropriate appointment has been made when enforcement action was taken.

Get some advice with your daughters EHCP - useful advice can be found online - look to see how many hours she should get and how these are to be used. As previous posters have said this should be really specific. Then call for her annual review (ask for her case worker from the LA to attend - not powerful people, just prep paperwork but a start). Explain your concerns at the annual review - ask what the school intends to do - take notes. Keep speaking to the SENDCO (not always good, not always experts - always double check what you are told), make an appointment with the headteacher. Keep on the pressure. Become the expert in the situation and push for your daughter.

You need to arrange a meeting with the SENCo in the first instance. Email them, and beforehand, ask for a copy of the class timetable showing what support your DD receives for each lesson, ask for a copy of your DDs short term targets as agreed at her last Annual Review.
At the meeting, use these documents to lead the conversation. If you can, get someone from SENDIASS to attend with you. You cannot be swayed by the school saying there are other needy children that the TA has to support. If they try to talk about this, just repeat “I appreciate what you’re saying, but I am here to discuss the provision that my child is legally entitled to and is not currently receiving.”

And if they say there is a TA in that class supporting your child, ask if they are supporting just your child or other children with ECHPs also.

Yep, I am in schools when SLT are supporting disruptive children, where SLT are running nurture groups from 7.30am so that children are calm before school starts, where they work on an individual basis with disruptive children, where they follow said children around to stop them climbing up PE bars, or trying to open the fire exit and run, SLT at school boundaries, talking children down, SLT spending their lunch in the nurture room with children who benefit from good relationships.
I have my meetings with SLT, to drive improvement in the education of all children, continually interrupted by disruptive children hiding under our chairs, tipping over drinks, in one case stripping off and urinating on the carpet.

I see the time taken by the SENCO (SLT) to complete assessments and request support, to have it refused because the LA can't in all honesty provide in budget, staffing or places. Having to repeat the same funding applications. LA illegally having to agree part time timetables because their are no other places and the LA has a duty to educate. I see the same LA come down hard on SLT because the have so many severely persistently absent children ( due to the agreed part time timetables!)

One HT said “80% of my time is spent on 10% of the children here” ( primary school).
What about every other child?

It's alright suggesting SLT support, they do, because they put children first, because they need to support their staff but who does the job of SLT?

Sadly school budgets are being squeezed to the point where staffing is insufficient. A child with a full-time EHCP will only be funded by the LA to around £6-£8k. Schools are expected to 'contribute the first £6k' from their general SEN budget. A full-time TA will cost around £22k with employer on-costs.
Legal requirement or not, many schools are no longer able to subsidise these positions. And that's if they can even recruit. How many MNers would work effectively full-time hours for about £18k?

EHCPs can be fully funded. LAs won’t do it unless forced to, but it is possible.

Perhaps someone could tweet this thread to Laura Kuenssberg, seeing as she’s decided to get interested in education? (I would but no longer on Twitter.)

A lot of what should be happening just isn't and hasn't been for years, but without the resources to do it, how can it?🤔
I really, really feel for the many thousands of children and staff affected 😔.

Our local school is constantly hiring new TAs to add to the overall amount of staff (luckily they have the budget for this!)

But even with 2 TAs per year it still isn't enough support. So many children require 1:1, there's an "explosive child" per class and those who quietly struggle simply slip through the net.

We're in a very deprived area and there's so many troubled children here that there's no point in moving schools. All local schools have the same issue.

The new normal, sadly.

Thankfully our school also has an almost FT volunteer per class too.

This has been the case for YEARS. My friend's son, who is now nearly 30, went through mainstream education, supposedly with 1:1 support. That 'support' was usually used to support the entire class, he received little to no additional help and, as my friend says now, would have been better moving to a specialist school. He's a bright lad but gained no qualifications and almost no benefit from school at all.

But even with 2 TAs per year Sorry I mean per class

I agree - 2 TAs per class would be inadequate for many classes.
Unfortunately, we are lucky if we even get one TA into every class that needs it and there are definitely SEN students at my secondary school who rarely get a TA due to not having enough TAs to go around and high levels of absenteeism amongst the TAs who are employed there due to the stressful environment.
Certain pupils my SENCo will insist always have a TA - these are the very most vulnerable ones who can’t be left alone even at lunchtime. The others? They don’t get a TA lots of days.

What does the EHC plan actually specify when it comes to hours or money? I haven’t seen one for a long time in MS that specifies 1:1 full time.

Late response - been super busy. Thanks all, I’ve had a look at her recent EHC and no it doesn’t necessarily say 1:1 but the school told me (and still tell me) they give her 1:1 in the mornings - the school deny the issues which is the issue here too. But in her EHC plan she should be getting close adult support as well as extra provision for phonics as well as speech & language provision every day as well as opportunities to improve her motor skills, none of which are really happening. Like I said in my Op she does not need full time 1:1, she has no behavioural issues and it’s mainly in the core lessons. The school are saying they are giving her 1:1 (in their words) but dd and even the Ta tells a different story.

I totally get how funding in schools is stretched to the minute. But I feel like dd is cruising along and not really making any progress but the school say it’s fine as she has an EHC plan, almost like well it doesn’t matter how behind she is because she has the plan going up the school.

I don’t think she’d get a place in a SEN school. My eldest is autistic and has much more complex needs than dd and really struggling in mainstream (secondary) in many ways with low attainment, he also has an EHC plan and the council are refusing him to be moved to a SEN school, mainly because like dd he is not disruptive and not at risk of being excluded. His needs are much more complex than dd’s too.

there are 200 students in my daughters school and only two children with EHC plans, many are on the SEN register though.

Unfortunately if 1:1 is not detailed, specified and quantified it cannot be enforced. If “close adult support” and “opportunities to” are written in F they are far too vague too. If the phonics and SALT provision are the same they aren’t enforceable either. You need an early review to tighten the wording up.

You should appeal DC1’s EHCP, the majority of appeals are upheld.