New UC rules to force both partners to work ??

[Citrusmuffin]

I can’t find anything online about this but have heard it’s being changed as previously there had to be a certain number of hours worked but this could be by just one partner but now it’s being changed to make both work even though the total household hours don’t change??

This seems very unfair and taking away choice for some families in difficult circumstances. I just can’t find the official guidance is anyone able to link to it ? Thanks

Yes I don't quite understand either. The vast majority of my clients that I help at work receive LCWRA and PIP. I have a couple of clients who are on LCWRA for anxiety/ depression but don't quite qualify for PIP because there is no way of knowing if it will last for another nine months for example someone has a breakdown but is expected to recover.

@Babyroobs @AlienEgg
The process of applying for PIP would kill me. It is not something I would be able to manage with at all... and that was what my own MH team told me a few years back.
Please, no 'what ifs' and 'buts', or advice I have not asked for.
Just wanted to put out there that the new changes are freaking people out, and we try to remember that it will take years to happen, if they happen at all.

Yes. And what is often neglected in the UK discussion on this is that the taxes paid by higher earners in Denmark, Sweden, France, Germany etc who have better public services is comparable broadly to the rates paid in the UK. The gap in the UK funding is from the lower and middle earners, who in those countries pay a much higher percentage. In the UK we have increasingly narrowed our tax base by increasing the personal allowance. This has made our system very unstable, reliant on a small proportion of people and meant it is not possible to fund public services properly because there are not enough of those people to possibly do so on their own, even when in many cases now the effective tax rates are 85%-100%!

If people want decent public services then they need to adopt what those countries do which means that people who can work, work. Benefits are usually mostly contributory. State pensions should be based on earnings levels and how much individuals contributed. Everyone is expected to contribute a significant proportion of their salaries in taxes, not just expect others to do it. And everyone is meant to get the benefits of that, not trying to exclude those paying it from things that should be universal like childcare funding. But this then also allows less inequality, better public services for all and better health outcomes, properly funded state education, "free" university etc.

Our problem seems to be we have many people who think other people should pay for everything and they should contribute nothing and then complain everything is underfunded. It's bizarre. It seems to be a basic lack of economics where people do not grasp we cannot look after our old or vulnerable properly if a quarter of working age adults contribute nothing at all, another third don't work to full capacity and only 20% of the adult population pay in more tax than they expect back. How would that ever be possible to sustain?

I am sorry for your situation.

Is there anybody who can help you with this? It is not always as bad as people make out, especially if you have lots of evidence to send (which it sounds like you would do). Or an advocate (some charities do this) who could handle the process on your behalf?

The criteria for pip and esa are different. I know many who get one and not the other.

It can be a very difficult process I understand why you feel it wouldn’t be something you could manage. It shouldn’t be so difficult to claim 😞

Perhaps your MH team could actually support you with the application rather than telling you it would kill you which is not helpful. I have helped a number of people recently with severe MH problems to claim PIP and their health professionals have written detailed reports and they have had no problem being awarded it, often even without an assessment. I have also supported people recently whilst they have had the PIP assessment by phone and the assessors have been really supportive and patient and the outcomes have been positive. just wanted to let you know this in case you do decide to apply. It may not be as bad as you think and there is help out there - CAB, Age UK ( if over 50), mental health charities etc.

The bottom line is that either we have crap public services, crap health outcomes and crap everything.

Or those who can work do so, and don't expect to be funded to work part time if they are not disabled/ have caring responsibilities, and that low and middle earners accept they'll need to pay around 10% more tax than they are doing.

Capital gains taxes should also be raised to be equivalent to income taxes. That would help a bit to make the genuinely wealthy pay their way, but ultimately there are not enough of them for that to fund what people want.

Higher earnining PAYE employees (£50k-150k) are taxed to death already (actually more than in most of the countries mentioned) and have carried everyone else for 15 years.

So if people want change, they need to accept they will work and they will pay much more tax than they are now, not expect everyone else to. Plus also probably lower tax free allowance back to £5kish.

Will they do it? No. Because it's always "oh I'd happily pay more tax", or as with Brexit "it's worth being poorer" but what they mean is that someone else should foot the bill.

The UK will continue to decline unless all people start to take responsibility and pay up. And it is those who truly can't work and should get far more support who suffer. And those on higher incomes are fed up and leaving because they pay Scandinavian rates of taxes for third world services. It's those in the middle that need to accept they will have to work full time and pay much more tax even if it's "inconvenient" or "much nicer to be home with the kids", if they want anything to get better or their children to have a decent future.

Thank you. A friend of mine just went through the process of applying after may years of putting it off. She was awarded zero points despite a huge amount of evidence.

@XenoBitch Why would your MH team say that to you and then not 'do' the application for you? I've known CAB successfully do applications for those who are illiterate.

I have not asked for advice, and I did say that in my previous post. You don't know me or my situation. It is so much more than just filling in forms and sending them off. Not everyone can cope with their life being picked apart in such a way.
Thank you.

Sorry @XenoBitch

I really did not mean to upset with my posts to you. I am aware of charities though who do advocacy services for this type of thing and might be able to help you by handling the process on your behalf so you did not have to do it. I don't mean to press the point if it's not what you want but if you did want to I think it could make it possible. But sorry if that's just not helpful or has made it worse to say.

As you've been through the process you'd know that even with evidence it's hard to claim.

I wasn't offering advice and not prying into your history. I was querying why their package of support for you couldn't include alleviating the burden of applying.

That was to @XenoBitch
Really saying the same thing as @AlienEgg

No the work commitments are for disabled people not in receipt of pip. They are removing the assement so the claim process is incorporated into being eligible for pip.

Again, receiving PIP, and therefore receiving the health element, will not automatically mean someone does not have work commitments. See the benefits and work FAQs here.

“Can I be forced to do any work-related activities if I get the UC health element?
Yes you can.
If you are receiving the UC health element you may be set both voluntary and mandatory work-related requirements by a work coach and you will be subject to sanctions if you don’t meet the mandatory requirements.
The DWP say they will introduce new “more personalised levels of conditionality and employment support, with the aim of helping people to reach their potential and live a more independent life”.#”

WCA are being scrapped as per the link in my pp.

• From your link We will replace the current Universal Credit Limited Capability for Work and Work Related Activity (LCWRA) financial top up with a new UC health element. This will be awarded to people who are receiving the UC standard allowance and any PIP element. The award rate of the new UC health element will be set equal to the current award to those people that have LCWRA, ensuring there is a safety net in place for the most vulnerable.

you are confused everyone receiving pip WILL receive the sane amount of money in the new health element as the current LCWRA .The work couch support to decide work commitments without extra financial support is for disabled claimants NOT eligible for pip.

@AlienEgg there is transitional protection for those not in receipt of pip.

you are confused everyone receiving pip WILL receive the sane amount of money in the new health element as the current LCWRA.

I haven’t said they won’t. Please quote where you think I have.

What I have said is being in receipt of the health element won’t automatically remove work commitments. Which is different to saying claimants won’t receive the health element.

@NewNovember what does that mean though?

Are you saying that PIP criteria will be changed so only those who cannot work will get PIP?

Or are you saying that anyone with PIP, if they applied for UC, would automatically be exempt from work?

Or both? I don't understand because the PIP criteria currently don't have any relation to whether you can work or not.

The work couch support to decide work commitments without extra financial support is for disabled claimants NOT eligible for pip.

No it’s not just for those not in receipt of PIP. And the link I posted doesn’t state that either. The benefit and works FAQs confirms includes those in receipt of the health element can still have work commitments.

Ok, but that doesn't explain how it is meant to work in future.

Those already receiving PIP, if they work now but then become too unwell to work, they will automatically be deemed too unwell to work by UC? And for what level of PIP, any?

How will "work coaches" with no medical qualification assess those currently not required to work to claim UC but who don't get PIP be assessed, and on what criteria?

And if someone gets PIP and currently works, what happens? If receiving PIP is now meant to mean automatically you aren't well enough to work? Or will PIP criteria be changed so anybody who works can't claim it i.e. a backdoor way of trying to remove disability benefits?

you are confused there are no work commitments for those who will receive the heakth element as it replaces WRA work related activity. The work commitments as I have said multiple times is for those who are not in receipt of pip. Why are you finding this so difficult to comprehend?

@FloatingBean you are saying that if the pip claimants don't carry out work commitments they won't receive the health element award there are no commitments for that cohort.