Can a capacity assessment for medical reasons ever be done without the patients knowledge?

[autonomyagain]

Or would the patient know as they’d have to attend for tests etc?

I assume it would be documented in notes too?

Can these ever be done in a less formal way by a gp just about one issue or is it always a formal assessment that then removes autonomy for everything not just one thing ?

Sounds awful ,were you signing under duress?
were th hospital staff aware on the the second occasion that you were signing under duress?

Yes they were aware. My mother literally stood over me told me I had to sign it and said in front of the drs that now I’d signed it nobody could say it was anything other than my choice.

They then gave me a pessary to start the process - 5 mins later I asked my mother to get a dr as I needed it out and to go home. She refused. I was too scared to get up so started calling. A dr came and I said to take it out - clearly. They said they couldn’t . They then decided to get me down to theatre sooner than planned and told me it was too late. I saw in my notes how that dr contradicted himself saying at first I asked for the pessary to be removed but then how he couldn’t speak to me clearly as I was upset ? Almost to excuse the inaction when I asked to have it removed . After that point I remember very little as I think I went into shock

‘Patient tearful and upset - vacillating over procedure.

Has had several counselling ?procedures

I was unable to speak to patient properly

When I visited she was wanting the pessary remove ‘

the rest is hard to decipher. They gave me gas (can see the word Gas) as I was refusing the IV for anaesthetic. I can make out the word ‘rapid’

Outrageous behaviour from all.involved in really sorry you went through this you could make a complaint I'm pretty sure they have to keep.patients notes for quite a number of years ( can't remember exactly) ,but given the length of time that has passed what do you want to happen now.?

I don’t think there’s anything I can do. I just needed clarity on the points as I’m having counselling and it’s hard when I don’t know if things were illegal or just unethical .

This thread has helped a lot as has answered my questions about legal issues.

I don’t want to complain I think that will waste nhs time. I just want to feel better

In 2005 I was refused my notes - the consultant then wrote to the gp letting him know I was asking for them . I then only got them 2 years ago finally

Hi OP. Ive read your latest posts after the info I gave the other day. If I were you, I'd refer the GP and all other doctors involved to the GMC. Let them review and deal with it. It doesn't matter about a signature on a form, that doesn't give consent. The signature is evidence to suggest the consenting process took place. You didn't consent. They have behaved unethically. They could be struck off for this

OP Dr's have to practice ethically not just legally.

https://www.gmc-uk.org/ethical-guidance/ethical-guidance-for-doctors/decision-making-and-consent

I agree with @LadyLolaRuben this is a GMC reportable issue around doctors and consent. It is not the NHS so will not be taking money/time from that

The GP is now retired, the consultant is still practising but it was so long ago would they even look at this ?

https://www.gmc-uk.org/concerns/supporting-you-with-your-concern/how-to-raise-a-concern-with-us
Suggest you speak to an advisor about it

I am so sorry you went through all this.

https://www.medicalprotection.org/uk/articles/an-mps-essential-guide-to-consent

This is a link to guidance for medical professionals from a medical defence organisation
The question you need to ask yourself is Did the doctors involved go against this guidance, and that of the GMC?

Thankyou I will read the links and contact the GMC. I finally got my notes in 2020 though so I wonder if a time limit has passed. I spent from then till now trying to find out if what happened was legal but no solicitors I contacted could advise . I don’t want to waste nhs time and money complaining so maybe the GMC is the right route , I don’t know ? All I know is that I told everyone I could from start to finish that I didn’t want that done, that I was being forced and they just kept recording that in my notes but nobody acted on it. I could see as well that information was fed back to the consultant so was he overall the responsible professional ? It’s probably too long go to do anything and even if I can I don’t think it will make me feel any better, although he’s working on the same area obviously and I worry was I the lone case or not

Retired doctors can still be complained about

I’ll read but I’m assuming things would have been different in 2000?

One solicitor I called told me that it’s too long ago as ‘nobody will remember’ but I said I have the notes ? So that’s irrelevant as In the absence of any recollection the notes are the evidence but they didn’t agree

2000 is not that long ago and consent was an important thing then as it is now

Really ? I didn’t know that. His initial referral to the hospital made me cry when I read it. He had actually put how I wanted to be pregnant- but then added (irrelevant) info about my school years and my mums troubles (I was 18 by this point not the 14-16 year old he seemed to write about) then he concluded the letter with how he didn’t think I was emotionally mature and HE wanted me considered for a termination ??

I will get in touch with the GMC. I had not complained already because I just thought well it won’t change things and it just puts pressure on the nhs but if the GMC are separate maybe that’s the way to go with this . It was terrible anyway but seeing the notes (finally after being refused the first time ) has made me so angry as I believed that I’d just been ignored or not heard but knowing I’d told everyone I was being forced and even on the day but then I saw they had listened but just noted it all.

some if it is so sad. They’ve put how I clearly stated no and was going home but then how my mum wanted me to and how they’d tell me to reconsider then rebook for the next week

I think you should delete the photo even though you have anonymised it.

I am so very sorry you went through this. It sounds like there was no-one there to support you.
I think nowadays the safeguarding team would be involved.

So it was a GP, the hospital counsellor, at least 2 nurses, a doctor on the day (who recorded I wanted the pessaries removed but refused and then wrote he couldn’t actually understand was I was asking even though he put it in the notes) and the consultant. I told them all clearly I was being forced and I told them I didn’t want to I feel so let down

You’re probably right I’ve reported this and my other photo. I’m just so upset and just wanted people to see what they wrote as they 100% knew I was being forced and nobody helped me they just wrote it down and carried on

Have had another look on the GMC website & there is a comment that you can request archived guidance back to 1963.
Consent was v important in 2000 as it is now.