Page 2 | Sudan. Why is repatriating British citizens caught up there all over the news?

Willmafrockfit · 27/04/2023 08:28

agree, media are perhaps comparing to Afghanistan

Justhereforaibu1 · 27/04/2023 08:29

If you're not interested just scroll on by

Abra1t · 27/04/2023 08:33

It is complicated.

Quite a few are dual nationality. Some, like that young man on R4 yesterday, were born here but have lived in Sudan for most of their lives. He said he had no family here and nowhere to live in the UK.

It is quite complex.

Some seemed to have ignored FO advice not to travel? I’m not sure if that has been verified and that was the official advice?

Some of course were teaching, working, visiting family, etc. Quite a few NHS doctors in the latter group. That poor man with the very frail and elderly mother.

Iwasafool · 27/04/2023 08:38

GraysPapaya · 27/04/2023 08:24

I think we’ve got more history with Sudan and more British people lived there/were on holiday there. It’s an ex empire country, so there were 4000 people to get out.
The Afghan evacuation did make the news a lot though , I remember it being on constantly.

It does frustrate me as an ex military person when people say ‘hurry up and evacuate them’ as though it’s simple to land a plane in a dynamic active war zone and British service men and women and all the kit is expendable. When you look at NEOs they can be VERY complicated.

I Think we were right to do it properly, the people who were evacuated have said it was very slick and professional once under way.

So why could other countries start more quickly than we could? Once we had started removing diplomats why couldn't we carry on removing civilians? Why did they initially say we would not be including dual nationals and then we were?

It might be slick now but there are lots of doubts about if we can get everyone out. It is a terrible situation and I have a sibling with children who were in a similar situation years ago. The children were dual nationals and the family were at real risk, thank God for people in that country who spirited them away and hid them.

I feel so sorry for all the innocent people in such a terrible situation.

Abra1t · 27/04/2023 08:47

If you’re dual nationals and you have family there in the country suffering unrest, why is your need to leave the country worse than your family’s? Would you be marked out?

Willmafrockfit · 27/04/2023 08:50

Justhereforaibu1 · 27/04/2023 08:29

If you're not interested just scroll on by

who is that comment aimed at?

luckylavender · 27/04/2023 08:51

Fordian · 26/04/2023 22:20

I don't recall this since Afghanistan? But even then, it was rescuing Afghans who'd assisted the west.

I am genuinely interested in knowing why, in this conflict, so much say, BBC news- is about the rescue of this group from Sudan?

Please note, I'm not disputing the worthiness if this effort, just wondering why THIS conflict's rescue efforts has resonance on MSM?

Yemen? Nothing. Unless there are a negligible %age of the population?

I don't know!

You don't understand why rescuing British citizens is newsworthy?

Iwasafool · 27/04/2023 08:54

Abra1t · 27/04/2023 08:47

If you’re dual nationals and you have family there in the country suffering unrest, why is your need to leave the country worse than your family’s? Would you be marked out?

You can be marked out if the fighting factions have issues with your country and let's face it historically lots of countries have issue with Britain or with foreigners in general. So if the rest of the family are local and you have 2 or 3 young children who are half British who are at more risk because of being British don't you think those children have some right to expect support from Britain? As British children don't they have a right anyway?

You also have ongoing issues with a country descending into chaos. If things continue to deteriorate and a local family see their children starving will they want to share with "foreign" families? Look at the resentment in this country about anything given to asylum seekers.

Abra1t · 27/04/2023 08:56

Iwasafool · 27/04/2023 08:54

You can be marked out if the fighting factions have issues with your country and let's face it historically lots of countries have issue with Britain or with foreigners in general. So if the rest of the family are local and you have 2 or 3 young children who are half British who are at more risk because of being British don't you think those children have some right to expect support from Britain? As British children don't they have a right anyway?

You also have ongoing issues with a country descending into chaos. If things continue to deteriorate and a local family see their children starving will they want to share with "foreign" families? Look at the resentment in this country about anything given to asylum seekers.

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Yes, I wondered about the particularly marked out because of the British aspect.

Awful situation.

Iwasafool · 27/04/2023 08:59

Abra1t · 27/04/2023 08:56

Yes, I wondered about the particularly marked out because of the British aspect.

Awful situation.

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I don't know if it would apply to Sudan but I know it was an issue for my family members in another conflict.

Snowjokes · 27/04/2023 09:00

Ive read criticism this morning that British citizens leaving were forced to leave elderly relatives behind. Should evacuation flights be available to relatives of British citizens? Those who have valid British visas? No visas?

If you evacuate someone who is a British citizen, but hasn’t lived in the UK for many years and has no family in the UK, does that come with a responsibility to support them once in the UK?

If you tell people to make their way to an airport, and they get shot on the way to the airport, is that your fault?

It’s not as simple as just “send a plane” and it’s very irritating when the media pretend it is.

Iwasafool · 27/04/2023 09:19

Snowjokes · 27/04/2023 09:00

Ive read criticism this morning that British citizens leaving were forced to leave elderly relatives behind. Should evacuation flights be available to relatives of British citizens? Those who have valid British visas? No visas?

If you evacuate someone who is a British citizen, but hasn’t lived in the UK for many years and has no family in the UK, does that come with a responsibility to support them once in the UK?

If you tell people to make their way to an airport, and they get shot on the way to the airport, is that your fault?

It’s not as simple as just “send a plane” and it’s very irritating when the media pretend it is.

As a humanitarian gesture if there are empty seats on a plane why not let vulnerable people use them particularly if they are with British members of their family?

I assume a British citizen returning to Britain has the same rights to support as any other British citizen, I think for NHS they have to returning permanently not just a 2 week holiday.

Kinsters · 27/04/2023 09:57

Snowjokes · 27/04/2023 09:00

Ive read criticism this morning that British citizens leaving were forced to leave elderly relatives behind. Should evacuation flights be available to relatives of British citizens? Those who have valid British visas? No visas?

If you evacuate someone who is a British citizen, but hasn’t lived in the UK for many years and has no family in the UK, does that come with a responsibility to support them once in the UK?

If you tell people to make their way to an airport, and they get shot on the way to the airport, is that your fault?

It’s not as simple as just “send a plane” and it’s very irritating when the media pretend it is.

The position is that UK citizens and their immediate relatives (spouse and dependent children) are eligible for evacuation, providing the spouse and children have visas or the right to live in the UK, that's my understanding anyway.

Iwasafool · 27/04/2023 10:51

Wouldn't the child of a British citizen normally have British citizenship automatically? Would they need a visa?

Kinsters · 27/04/2023 12:04

Iwasafool · 27/04/2023 10:51

Wouldn't the child of a British citizen normally have British citizenship automatically? Would they need a visa?

Not necessarily. A parent who was born overseas can only pass their British citizenship to their child if their child is born in Britain. So if there's a father who has left his family in Sudan to work in the UK and he stays long enough to acquire UK citizenship but his children are still living in Sudan then they're not British citizens.

I had my children overseas, if they want their children (my grandchildren) to be British then, under the current laws, they would need to have their children in the UK. I'm sure there are other ways around it.

Kinsters · 27/04/2023 12:05

And of course that's assuming my children have children with someone who is not British!

Iwasafool · 27/04/2023 12:19

Kinsters · 27/04/2023 12:04

Not necessarily. A parent who was born overseas can only pass their British citizenship to their child if their child is born in Britain. So if there's a father who has left his family in Sudan to work in the UK and he stays long enough to acquire UK citizenship but his children are still living in Sudan then they're not British citizens.

I had my children overseas, if they want their children (my grandchildren) to be British then, under the current laws, they would need to have their children in the UK. I'm sure there are other ways around it.

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That's why I said normally rather than always. There are exceptions but normally it would be passed on.

Kinsters · 27/04/2023 12:32

Iwasafool · 27/04/2023 12:19

That's why I said normally rather than always. There are exceptions but normally it would be passed on.

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It depends where you're looking what's normal though. I'd guess that in Sudan there's a larger proportion of British citizens with children who are not British citizens than you'd find in eg Cornwall...

Iwasafool · 27/04/2023 12:40

Kinsters · 27/04/2023 12:32

It depends where you're looking what's normal though. I'd guess that in Sudan there's a larger proportion of British citizens with children who are not British citizens than you'd find in eg Cornwall...

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Yes highly likely but it is still normal for a child to acquire British citizenship from a parent, in your example one generation has done just that.

Rules change as well, my husband was born overseas and at that time he could only claim British citizenship through a father, his mother was British and his father wasn't. Sexist times.

I had a neighbour who was born overseas as her father was a diplomat, her husband was born overseas as his father was in the military. Their children were born overseas as her husband was also in the military. They did manage to sort it out, not sure how but they did get British passports for the children. Eventually their children decided to emigrate as they said, "Britain has no loyalty to us so we have no loyalty to Britain."

Kinsters · 27/04/2023 13:06

Iwasafool · 27/04/2023 12:40

Yes highly likely but it is still normal for a child to acquire British citizenship from a parent, in your example one generation has done just that.

Rules change as well, my husband was born overseas and at that time he could only claim British citizenship through a father, his mother was British and his father wasn't. Sexist times.

I had a neighbour who was born overseas as her father was a diplomat, her husband was born overseas as his father was in the military. Their children were born overseas as her husband was also in the military. They did manage to sort it out, not sure how but they did get British passports for the children. Eventually their children decided to emigrate as they said, "Britain has no loyalty to us so we have no loyalty to Britain."

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I don't know why you're going on at me about this. Someone else asked a question, I answered.

Justhereforaibu1 · 27/04/2023 13:17

Willmafrockfit · 27/04/2023 08:50

who is that comment aimed at?

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OP, if you're not interested in a news story just scroll past

Iwasafool · 27/04/2023 19:01

Kinsters · 27/04/2023 13:06

I don't know why you're going on at me about this. Someone else asked a question, I answered.

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How was I going on at you? I was replying to what you said which is normal.

L1ttledrummergirl · 27/04/2023 19:44

Iwasafool · 27/04/2023 08:38

So why could other countries start more quickly than we could? Once we had started removing diplomats why couldn't we carry on removing civilians? Why did they initially say we would not be including dual nationals and then we were?

It might be slick now but there are lots of doubts about if we can get everyone out. It is a terrible situation and I have a sibling with children who were in a similar situation years ago. The children were dual nationals and the family were at real risk, thank God for people in that country who spirited them away and hid them.

I feel so sorry for all the innocent people in such a terrible situation.

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While the military would have plans in place for this sort of emergency- hence the reason it's all stuck now- they eould have had to wait for not so Cleverly to give them the go ahead.

Another example of our government being shit. Even Ukraine had got people out before us, and they have other things going on right now.

drpet49 · 27/04/2023 19:46

Kinsters · 27/04/2023 04:12

Maybe because it quite quickly got a lot more dangerous so lots of people stranded. Could also be because it's the first big evacuation since the mismanagement of Afghanistan so everyone is interested/watching closely.

@Tallcurves you can say that about anything. What about people who ride motorbikes? Undoubtedly a dangerous choice but they still get free NHS treatment if they crash, as it should be imo.

Trouble has been brewing for weeks. People had plenty of time to leave and didn’t. Now they expect the British government to help.

Iwasafool · 27/04/2023 19:52

L1ttledrummergirl · 27/04/2023 19:44

While the military would have plans in place for this sort of emergency- hence the reason it's all stuck now- they eould have had to wait for not so Cleverly to give them the go ahead.

Another example of our government being shit. Even Ukraine had got people out before us, and they have other things going on right now.

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I didn't know Ukraine had got people out. We really are useless.