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Another baby killed by parents TW details of abuse.

127 replies

AgrathaChristie · 14/04/2023 14:11

https://metro.co.uk/2023/04/14/parents-who-burned-and-beat-baby-son-days-before-his-death-are-guilty-of-murder-18613694/

why? Why did they want the baby back with them if all they were interested in was drug use? Please can someone explain to me why they go to court to then go on to kill their child.
RIP Finley.

Killer parents burned and beat their baby son in the days before his death

Little Finley Boden, who died on Christmas Day, had 71 bruises over his body and 57 fractures.

https://metro.co.uk/2023/04/14/parents-who-burned-and-beat-baby-son-days-before-his-death-are-guilty-of-murder-18613694/

OP posts:
BonnieLisbon · 14/04/2023 18:30

Next time someone posts on mumsnet "In our country we think that in the UK babies are taken away from parents by social services far too easily" I'll give them a link to that news story.

Frezia · 14/04/2023 18:33

Everyone who supported lockdowns is liable for what happened to the most vulnerable people in society - children.

Shame on you for using Finley's suffering for your agenda.

Atethehalloweenchocs · 14/04/2023 18:34

I think people like this should have as part of their parole conditions to have no ability to parent a child again.

Absolutely - if we are able to hand out bans on people owning animals in future, surely we should do the same for children?

User98866 · 14/04/2023 18:44

About 20-odd years ago I went out with a lad whose dad was a senior SW. We were having a discussion one evening about a case that had been in the news (can’t remember which, may have been local to us). He said these exact words “Alcoholics and drug addicts can actually be very good parents”.

Well it entirely depends on whether they are able to be good parents or not doesn’t it? Also the level of addiction, are they functional? There’s no blanket rule that every alcoholic or drug addict is a bad parent. I was raised by a functional alcoholic mother who I was on the whole a very good parent. I highly suspect this man was a violent pycho with or without the weed addiction.

lucire · 14/04/2023 18:47

Rest in peace you beautiful boy. You really did deserve more. This sickens me. 😞

usernamechanged1 · 14/04/2023 19:24

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Nepmarthiturn · 14/04/2023 19:39

And generally dc do best with their families than in care.

Only because we don't fund care properly in the UK. This does not have to be the case. In many countries care homes are much, much better. And obviously infinitely better than living with abusive parents.

The answer is to fund children's care homes properly and do vastly lower the threshold for removal.

Whattodo112222 · 14/04/2023 19:51

Family court are categorically responsible for this. They had the chance to safeguard this beautiful boy. Cannot even fathom how parents can do this to a child. Hope they both rot.

Florenz · 14/04/2023 20:18

Heads should roll. But they will not. But rest assured that "lessons will be learned".

anunlikelyseahorse · 14/04/2023 23:49

The only people responsible for the wee lads death are his parents.
Saying they are evil isn't helpful, wanting them to swing by the necks makes us as base as they have been even though it's understandable
What needs to happen is to examine and answer the question 'why'. We really, really need to understand why a parent would do this to their own offspring, because until we understand why, we can't stop this from happening.
Before anyone jumps on me, I want to make it clear that of course the parents need to be punished, but if we (as a society) really want this to stop, then we need to look at the causes of infanticide. Because once we find the cause(s) then money needs to be put into stopping it. If parents are addicts, then they need to be given compulsory rehabilitation and only monitored visitation rights.
If there is domestic abuse, then the abusive partner needs to be lobertermised rehabilitation and anger management and only allowed supervised access. If parents are living in squalor then only when the house is an acceptable standard of cleanliness are they allowed to have their child at home with condition of daily followed by weekly, then fortnightly etc visits.
Social work needs a much bigger budget and social workers should always always do double up visits, 1) for their own safety 2) two sets of eyes are better than one 3) a devious manipulative character may 'pull the wool' over one set of eyes, less over two 4) being able to discuss a joint visit with a colleague is a very useful 'tool', especially if one of the workers has that 'nagging doubt' but can't quite say why. 5) if there is any teeny weeny concern about a child's welfare a social worker should have the right to enter, 6) by having two social workers, there is less chance of a 'bad' social worker abusing their power (and unfortunately there is always going to be a bad apple in every profession, giving the profession a bad name, so I'm not having a dig just stating a fact).
I don't know how much training a family judge has, but do they ever have to do visits with a social worker?
I don't want to make this a political argument but the labour government understood that getting in there to the early years has a really big impact in later years. We know this, the evidence is clear, we really need to put much much more money into the first five years of a child's life. We need much more support for parents and their child. Ironically, though, as our society becomes more insular so we risk alienating and isolating a very, very vulnerable group: mothers. How many mothers have suffered as a result of lockdown birthing and having absolutely no groups to attend with their newborn? How many mothers are frightened of leaving an abusive partner? How many mothers are suffering from postnatal depression, but are too frightened to get help? How many mothers or fathers for that matter are struggling to bond with their child? How many times do we hear and see parents being criticised for this that or the other?
We can stop so much of these awful events, but only if we are willing to look at the cause and spend money of the prevention. Prevention and cure.
But demonising and blaming, is just useless, ineffective and just causes more issues to be brushed under the carpet (and it's not even that cheap, because surely it costs more to the taxpayer to incarcerate two people, than it would to pay for the services that might have prevented this, and saved a little boy from such terrible suffering).

SwearySweary · 15/04/2023 07:05

It was me who made the comment that they should swing for this. I honestly don’t think that wishing that makes anyone as bad as them.

If I was considering torturing and murdering a baby, I’d be as bad as them. Wishing all hell for people who do that isn’t comparable, IMO.

Ricco12 · 15/04/2023 07:24

What a beautiful little soul he is with those lovely big eyes. Some people are so desperate for a baby they would of treasured him for the rest of his life. Yet them pigs abused him.

Some humans are disgusting. I hope they both die .

MintJulia · 15/04/2023 07:54

CremeEggThief · 14/04/2023 14:29

Social Services are almost as much to blame as the parents in this case. They should never have returned him.

Yes, easy to say with the benefit of hindsight, but this has happened too much in recent years...

Social Services are not to blame. They opposed returning Finley Boden so quickly and wanted a six month settling period but the Family Court ignored their advice.

Perhaps read up on the case before jumping to conclusions. How do you imagine that social worker feels?

manontroppo · 15/04/2023 08:06

@anunlikelyseahorse All of those things should be possible now, but instead we have family courts prioritising adults over vulnerable children. The judge is at least as culpable, and I really hope that the recent move to allow the press into family courts begins to shed some light in some very dark corners.

Nepmarthiturn · 15/04/2023 10:21

Social Services are not to blame. They opposed returning Finley Boden so quickly and wanted a six month settling period but the Family Court ignored their advice.

Why was a six month settling in period their advice, though? They recommended the child be removed at birth, and he was. What had changed in that time? The man was still violent, they were both still drug addicts, their home was still filthy, how could a baby be "settled in" to a happy life with such "parents"?

Obviously as you note the judge overruled their recommendation and was even more negligent, returning poor Finley to these "parents" immediately and to his entirely predictable death in their care. However, social services' recommendation also wasn't remotely appropriate. He was settled with a foster family who he'd been with since birth. There is absolutely no way on Earth it was in his interests to return him to these people over any timeframe and that was blatantly obvious.

Nepmarthiturn · 15/04/2023 10:42

And @anunlikelyseahorse while more early intervention for some families would certainly help things there will always be people who cannot be decent parents with any amount of help (either because they are simply incapable or because they are cruel and violent). Even in systems where all of the supports you mention are available it is still necessary to remove a number of children. And if those children are not removed at a much lower threshold then these types of tragedies will continue to occur, despite the support. So while what you recommended would help many children/ families, some are beyond help and the only way to fix that is to fund care homes properly so that the children in those homes have a stable and happy childhood and good outcomes, and lower the threshold for removal very significantly. It's not an either/ or situation: both things need to happen. But in the worst cases, the ones like this that you read about in the media, more support would have made absolutely no difference because people capable if doing this to a child could never, ever be a good parent no matter what you do. That is the reality.

AmyandPhilipfan · 15/04/2023 11:02

It turns into a vicious cycle with families like these. The parents can't parent because they weren't parented well and were raised in families where drug use, child abuse and domestic violence were the norm. They fall through the cracks and the kids get dragged up and when they have their kids (often very young and not in stable relationships) the cycle starts all over again.

Florenz · 15/04/2023 11:38

We need a licensing system for parents. Some people are just not suitable to be parents.

Reugny · 15/04/2023 23:00

@Nepmarthiturn it has been alluded to in press reports that there was at least one older child in the household.

It seems in some of these abusive parent cases if there are other children in the household who don't appear harmed at all/in the same way then it's presumed by some agencies all children in that household should be safe.

In this case the 6 month period requested by social services would allow the parents to show either way whether they could parent their baby.

DollyDoofer · 15/04/2023 23:04

Reugny · 14/04/2023 14:30

No the Family Court are to blame.

SS are to blame for not insisting on seeing him.

However we don't know how the Court Order was worded.

The judge would have made his judgement on the facts before him. The facts could only have been provided by Social Services or the Court Guardian.

Judges don’t make decisions without considering the evidence presented.

Lapland123 · 15/04/2023 23:08

JeanBodel · 14/04/2023 14:42

Social Services did not kill this poor child. His parents killed him.

The people working in Social Services are there because they are trying to make a difference. Yes, mistakes are made. But at least social workers are putting themselves out there trying to help, not sitting at their keyboards typing out phrases such as 'Social Services are almost as much to blame as the parents in this case'. This is beyond contempt. How are social workers almost as much to blame as the parents who battered this child to death?

I am leaving this thread now because I am too angry to continue reading it.

Totally agree.
People should stop stupidly blaming those who work to try to support society- or soon there will be no one left who does this.
the parents killed this poor child.
Disgusting to say ‘the Sw are as much to blame’.Disgusting.

Reugny · 15/04/2023 23:13

DollyDoofer · 15/04/2023 23:04

The judge would have made his judgement on the facts before him. The facts could only have been provided by Social Services or the Court Guardian.

Judges don’t make decisions without considering the evidence presented.

Family Court cases until very recently weren't open to the press at all. Those you can read about due to going to appeal show that there are plenty of screw ups.

Mikogirl · 15/04/2023 23:18

Frezia · 14/04/2023 15:25

This really shook me. That poor little boy knew nothing but fear, pain and distress in his short life. My heart hurts so much.

Same here. He was only ten months old. My heart hurt reading about this.

Mikogirl · 15/04/2023 23:19

fairywhale · 14/04/2023 15:37

How many of those bleeding hearts supported lockdowns. Social services refusing to come out in person because they were so awfully important and paid to stay at home whereas cashiers or security guards in Tesco being coughed on by thousands of people a day didn't matter and had to carry on, since they were not paid to stay at home.
Everyone who supported lockdowns is liable for what happened to the most vulnerable people in society - children.
In just the first 6 months of the shitshow there was a 25% increase of reported incidents of harm and abuse to children and probably much higher in reality and you would have had to be extremely naive to expect any different. Selfish and vile.

Hear hear !

DollyDoofer · 15/04/2023 23:24

Reugny · 15/04/2023 23:13

Family Court cases until very recently weren't open to the press at all. Those you can read about due to going to appeal show that there are plenty of screw ups.

Cases like Finley’s have always been reported on when the child dies. Family Courts are private to protect the identity of children within the court arena.

It’s nobody’s business why a child is removed from their parents. Or which parent gets custody of a child. The names of children being discussed in family battles should never be divulged - to protect the child.

When a child is killed, following immense suffering and cruelty, has always been reported to the public.

Where do you think the evidence comes from for a judge to consider the best option for the child? It’s only the judge, SS and the court guardian present in Family Court hearings. Plus the legal teams representing each party of course.