Is Scouts generally stricter than Girlguides?

[BrownieLeadersWhoLovesAnyChocolate]

I am a Brownie Leader.

Local event that we’ve paired up with local scouts to do a show/play type thing for.

Today was the first time we’ve had both scouts and GGs together for it.

I’ve told my Brownies that they can have a part, they can be in the chorus, they can support by helping me/other leaders, they can be in the audience or they can just not take part at all it’s completely up to them. We’ve also sent a message round to parents about when the event is to make sure that any girl who will be on holiday for the event isn’t given a big part and I’ve explained to the two girls it affects why they can’t have a big part but promised them in our Christmas show they can have big parts if they want.

I’ve also told my girls if they change their mind that’s absolutely fine to, they just need to let me know and I’ll shuffle everything about.

It’s supposed to be a bit of fun after all. I am also prepped that theres a few girls who might change their mind last minute, as they’ve taken on much bigger parts than I expected them to.

Scouts seems to be the complete opposite. The group leader we’ve been paired with has said that all 20 of his cubs will be on the stage, and they have no choice in it. It seems to be a very boy heavy group as well. He told me he’s asked the parents to cancel holidays and any child who doesn’t turn up and do their part will be asked to leave the group – same for rehearsals, if they don’t turn up they have to leave Scouts/Cubs.

Apparently he’s also charging the parents the equiviliant of what I charge for a half term per rehearsal. We’ve charged a weeks fee + 10p for a drink.

He also checked all of their uniform and made one poor boy cry because he had been given a badge the week before Easter and it wasn’t on his uniform yet.

Is this generally what scouts is like? Or is this just this group?

I’ve never known a GG group at any age to be so strict, with the older ages (the Guides and Rangers especially) we are slightly stricter on uniform but don’t care where badges are or if they’re even on the uniform.

I have Nephews who do Scouts locally and i'm worried for them now. My own DD was with me today (but is part of another GG unit).

I think this might be your experience only, tbh.
I am a Brownie leader, and I think I’m pretty chilled about uniform and badges as I know many of my families struggle financially. I have spare items in case they are needed for something ‘public’ but we don’t do extra things due to my work and family, strictly meetings only. I would rather the girls came and benefitted from the experience. Some of the girls have badges on the hoodies, most don’t as they want to be able to pass down the uniform.
DS is a Cub and they seem to have badges all over the place on their jumpers but no one has ever been criticised. Other than wearing it to parades and for promises it seems to mainly be used as a goalpost/marker of some sort!
DD goes to Guides now and they ask for a top and the necker they give them at the promise. The Guide jackets are foul to sew on so DD has a badge box at home. Sashes for all sections are a pain in the rear so we don’t bother with those!
Each leader and unit will be different I think. I don’t much like the sound of the leader you’ve come across but some boys maybe need the discipline and structure? Feels unkind though to me.

@Cryingbutstilltrying By stricter I mean we expect them to have nd wear for meeting at least the polo shirt or hoodie and even then we flex the rule if a girl has a reason she doesn't want to wear it (very rarely happens).

We don't expect badges on uniform or sashes or anywhere, some have blankets they take on camps with them on others we never see the badge again after it's given to them but thats fine to.

It just felt so restrictive for this particular group. Cubs is 8 to 10 isn't it so similar age to Brownies?

I'm a scout volunteer. Each group is run differently, dependant on the leaders.

Our group is youth-led and unpressured. The young people decide each term what badges they want to work on and help plan the program. We support them and build up their skills and confidence. We have an even split across the genders.

I know the play/show type thing you mean. None of my scouts wanted to do it so we aren't taking part. It should be completely optional.

I'm also a scout parent and I haven't sewed on any badges from last term yet!

What you described sounds very harsh. I don't know any groups within my area that operate like that.

@S72 Thank you good to know that it's similar to the way GGs is run for the most part, will ask my DNs when I see them whether their own leaders are strict or if they're more like me and you.

My sons cubs was definitely stricter than my daughters brownies and guides groups. She did both but left and just did guides because it was more strict. But still not anything like as strict as what you have described!

Gosh, my son has gone through Beavers, Cubs, Scouts and now is in Explorers. That leader sounds pretty awful and not our experience at all! I'm surprised he has any cubs left!

I have a GG background. The Scout group my DS went to drive me mad with its relaxed approach to everything. It was absolutely nothing like you describe.

Is the Cubs pack a Scout Association one, or is it a different Scouting organisation (e.g. British Boy Scouts)? Sometimes the uniform rules are different/stricter...

But I think the Cubs leader sounds unnecessarily strict. I do Beavers but work a lot with our Cubs and Scouts leaders and none of us would have the time or energy to be that hardline!

Leader sounds like a fucking dickhead on a power trip.

I'd call his bluff if my lad was in that unit.

Not my experience at all - I’ve been a leader and parent of scouts and have never encountered that kind of behaviour from a leader. He sounds awful 😬

Thanks everyone, I am assuming it's a Scout Association Pack @moggerhanger because there was a few girls in the pack just there was a lot more boys (Maybe 15 or so boys with 5 girls).

The only place I've noticed Scouts being stricter than Guides is uniform exoectation on Remembrance Parade. We expect smart trousers/skirt (school uniform type)with uniform top and necker. The brownies and guides had uniform top with any bottoms.

We don't force any of our Cubs to do things they don't want to do within reason (I.e they have to sit and listen to a visitor, but not do a Halloween game). Forcing some of ours to be on stage would not go well, but would support any who want to. (We have quite a few with additional needs).

I’ve had one DC through each and not noticed this, apart from as a pp said, the uniform thing where the Scouts turn out much more smartly for parades than the Guides.

Our scouts is hilarious and not strict at all!

Nobody would get forced on stage with ours.

It's supposed to be fun. Not an extension of school. If my son or daughter attended clubs that were strict I'd take them out and enrol in something else.

I feel sorry for those kids!!

So I would say our group sounds stricter than your GG but nowhere near that one.

We would expect badges on uniform within around a half term of time but no one would be told off for that.

We'd expect uniform (polo shirt) at least each week, and smart uniform for e.g. Remembrance Sunday.

We'd charge the usual weekly fee for rehearsals assuming we had additional hall costs (otherwise probably nothing) and it would be 100% optional.

I'd probably do some hefty cajoling if people wanted to back out of parts they'd taken on because doing things that take you outside your comfort zone is a big chunk of the point of cubs so I don't think I'd be doing any favours to let them back out without question. But ultimately if it was hopeless I would. I do think though that no doing things that scare you is a vicious cycle. If you look back on a thing you were scared to do and did it, you can use that every time you come across another scary thing. Whereas if you look back and you didn't all you have is knowing last time you were scared you didn't do it.

That's awful behaviour from the leader. I'm surprised they don't all just leave.

I'm a cubs leader but we do joint events with scouts and none of us leaders are like that. If they want to take part, great. If not, fine too.

We encourage but never force.

We have had a few young people join from another local scouts group though but that was because we do more activities!

Even when we went walk climbing, nobody had to do it. I did spend 15 mins coaxing a cub who got up the walk and then got paralysed with fear, back down. He got a drink, kind words, a tissue and a biscuit once I got him down. I acted just as I would want someone to if it were my own children upset.

@Augend23 Absolutely, but what I mean is theres girls who've taken on huge parts who I'd have steered towards smaller parts as they're quite shy/quiet so it'd still be helping them confidence wise just not in such a big way if that makes sense? Theres no point pushing them to big parts to soon and it backfiring.

@ilovewispas Encourage but never force, same as me. And I always make sure to tell a parent "She was a bit scared at first so we did it in small steps" or "But with some help from me/Snowy she overcame that and I'm very proud"

Our Cubs is nothing like that. I think you’ve just had a bad experience…my autistic DS1 would not cope at all with that kind of leader. Luckily ours is the cajoling and kind type (and an utter saint for the hours he puts in!).

Ours is stricter about uniform than the guides but I liked that - and the fact scouts actually had a program and Did Stuff whereas the guides locally just wafted about ans never got round to doing the induction/handing out badges /caring about uniform at all , so those that liked badges didn't get a chance.

I was a firm GG member myself but not that impressed with the offering locally and scouts has been so much more on the ball. And cheaper (apart from uniform.) And it's not always super smart - that's for induction nights/visitors/ remembrance parade etc. All summer last year they had a pack t shirt and were out adventuring. I am so taken aback by the huge difference between the "so laid back its pretty crap" GG and the on the ball scouts!

So yes I'd say generally stricter as in they actually do stuff and care about the programme. But not crazy like your OP.

I think I’d have to step in as it sounds like this leader is a bully. Who makes a child cry and think that’s ok?
Having said that I’d rather scouts than brownies or guides as I don’t agree with many of their current policies.

My son’s Beavers is definitely stricter than my daughter’s Brownies. I live in fear of them noticing I haven’t sewed his latest badges on! 🤣 I haven’t done any of the Brownie ones. It’s definitely down to the leaders though and their personalities.

Thanks be fair. They're completely different organisations. Not the boy/girls equivalent of each other.theybhad the same foundations,bit GG is a very different organisation..

But your GG sounded like it was badly run. Probably one of the units that forced the "new" programme into being.

That scout group sounds awful.
Brownies/Guides marginally stricter ime. Both fun & structured.