Is Scouts generally stricter than Girlguides?

[BrownieLeadersWhoLovesAnyChocolate]

I am a Brownie Leader.

Local event that we’ve paired up with local scouts to do a show/play type thing for.

Today was the first time we’ve had both scouts and GGs together for it.

I’ve told my Brownies that they can have a part, they can be in the chorus, they can support by helping me/other leaders, they can be in the audience or they can just not take part at all it’s completely up to them. We’ve also sent a message round to parents about when the event is to make sure that any girl who will be on holiday for the event isn’t given a big part and I’ve explained to the two girls it affects why they can’t have a big part but promised them in our Christmas show they can have big parts if they want.

I’ve also told my girls if they change their mind that’s absolutely fine to, they just need to let me know and I’ll shuffle everything about.

It’s supposed to be a bit of fun after all. I am also prepped that theres a few girls who might change their mind last minute, as they’ve taken on much bigger parts than I expected them to.

Scouts seems to be the complete opposite. The group leader we’ve been paired with has said that all 20 of his cubs will be on the stage, and they have no choice in it. It seems to be a very boy heavy group as well. He told me he’s asked the parents to cancel holidays and any child who doesn’t turn up and do their part will be asked to leave the group – same for rehearsals, if they don’t turn up they have to leave Scouts/Cubs.

Apparently he’s also charging the parents the equiviliant of what I charge for a half term per rehearsal. We’ve charged a weeks fee + 10p for a drink.

He also checked all of their uniform and made one poor boy cry because he had been given a badge the week before Easter and it wasn’t on his uniform yet.

Is this generally what scouts is like? Or is this just this group?

I’ve never known a GG group at any age to be so strict, with the older ages (the Guides and Rangers especially) we are slightly stricter on uniform but don’t care where badges are or if they’re even on the uniform.

I have Nephews who do Scouts locally and i'm worried for them now. My own DD was with me today (but is part of another GG unit).

Is this generally what scouts is like? Or is this just this group?

Just this particular section.

If anything, when we have done joint Scout and Guide events, it tends to be the Guides who are more restricted by the association's rules than the Scouts.
Generally though, it is very much down to individual Leaders.

I have to say faffing about with 10p for a drink sounds like it would be more trouble than it's worth.

Re the shy people getting big parts and not coping thing, be careful. My DD had problems with people assuming this would happen with her. She is extremely shy, but can take lead roles and sing solos confidently, having been in a musical theatre group for years, she suffered from teachers at school thinking she wouldn’t cope with them and overlooking her for lead roles in school productions, it was really frustrating for her.

My DD had exactly this problem in primary. When they did the y6 leavers she got a medium part, and then kept coming home with extra lines as they added to it. Other parents came up after the performance saying to me in clearly surprised voices how good she was. She just hadn't been given a chance before.

DD was a Scout, is now an Explorer and a Young Leader with the Beavers. DH is the groups chairman so I know quite a lot of the behind-the-scene work.

This Cub leader is awful, none of our leaders would do this.

They are strict when it comes to uniform on Rememberance Parade (unless you can't see anything because they wear thick coats) or are on other official representation.
Also, DH is a rifle instructor and due to the nature of the activity they are really strict during the sessions. They banned two boys from coming to the sessions ( not the group) because they wouldn't behave despite warnings and a message to the parent to also talk to the boys.

They would expect to have a commitment and then stick to it if a child said they would participate but if circumstances out of control come up, they wouldn't kick a child out.

The Beavers are quite boy-heavy, Cubs are a mix, 60/40 boys, the Scouts are often more girls nowadays and the Explorers are 50/50 again. DD moved from Brownies to Scouts because our GG was too girly and she got bored with it.

@00100001 not sure why you've singled me out there. I did talk about our local guides and scouts just as others have been sharing about their experiences. Pretty much what this thread is.

Having been a brownie/girl guide myself I was initially keen mine came through the ranks. But genuinely impressed at how much better scouts is (locally - as I said, when I was a GG we Did Stuff, did badges etc.)

I do think the change to the new programme in guides hasn't been great ' and the change of badges hasn't helped. I'm pretty sad because, as I said, my background was GG!

Wow sounds as though he volunteers because he loves shouting at kids

I find Ds cub group need to be firm, but are caring with it. They seem to do a lot more potentially dangerous fire/water based stuff younger than the girl groups which requires more discipline. They are big on personal responsibility too. By Scouts sewing badges on is supposed to be their responsibility not the parents. I could imagine their leader saying they all have to have a small part on stage to push them out of their comfort zone, but would put the shy kids into group performances where they could be carried by someone more confident. Yours sounds like he may have slipped into bullying tosser territory.

All my children are scouts and ds is a brownie leader too. None of the leaders are like this. Sounds like a power hungry bully!

It's not like any cub pack I've known of.

I think it’s very dependent on the leader. Mine is in scouts and other than the scarf, doesn’t even own uniform. They don’t really seem to wear it, so can’t be asked to shell out for it. They do have really structured activities for each term though, which I really like.

Dd did rainbows previously and it was absolute chaos. They just seemed to set out some colouring stuff on tables each week but mostly the girls just ran away the hall screeching for an hour and then went home. I had to stay once as needed to feed baby ds so didn’t drive back home. I felt like I needed to lock myself away in a dark room to decompress after. It was just complete chaos. Again I think down to the leaders just being a bit rubbish.

The comment about asking parents to cancel holidays almost makes me think he is fibbing and trying to "one up" you. Basically feels threatened for some reason (probably because your group are happy and chill) and so is trying to make himself look like a big bad strict leader.

Be wary of any shared rehersals and him trying to assert his disciplinarian ways on you group...or him trying to take over completely and push you aside.

A lot of men don't like sharing instructional responsibilities with women. I have encountered it several times in a male heavy sport I used to do (martial arts). I used to do some ad-hoc instructing as a favour for my instructor and the sessions were led by me and this other man (shared equally and no one designated senior/junior). This bloke took it upon himself to be "leader" and completely steam rolled over anything I did or suggested (we were same rank within the sport). In the end I told my instructor I wouldn't be helping in those sessions anymore and left this bloke to it. I wasn't too bothered as it was becoming a bit of a hassle anyway. I've also experienced it on the other side as well (participating in a session) ... e.g. man tries to assert authority and push female instructor aside. One man turned up at a session and thought he was billy big bollocks and couldn't help interrupting my female instructor all throughout the session, even going as far to turn to face the class and demonstrate moves to us all. He didn't last long. 😂

I don't know any scout leader who would say you have to cancel holidays!!!

i think it was just that so many people think that Guides and Scouts are the same organisation, just aimed at different sexes.

GG has lost their way and isn't true to it's own ethos and beginnings anymore :(

Ah yes agree with you there. I was quite sad about all the changes as it was an important part of my growing up and a good male free space. I'm so pleased mine are now enjoying scouting but it is genuinely SO different from guiding locally. I am worried guiding is being watered down/ changing direction as a movement and becoming more about what people perceive a stereotypical girl should be interested in (colouring and cake decorating and a bit of campaigning) and not all the adventures I had as a guide!

It does sound like he's being waaayyy too strict, If this is just something between your units for parents and friends, and he probably can't follow up on some of his threats! Particularly the uniform making a child cry, asking parents to cancel holidays or making members leave for not attending rehearsals.
But it also sounds a bit like you're being a bit lax if I'm being honest - the best thing to have done would have been to either have a meeting before getting together and agree on things, or one of you have taken charge and let the other know what they needs (eg fees, uniform requirements, what parts kids could have, commitments needed). But it's the first time you've done it, so you know for next time!

Is this something in addition to weekly cubs/ Brownie meetings? Has be perhaps held auditions and given the schedule out to parents already, and is only bringing the cubs who are available and have passed his auditions, hence why he's being stricter with them?
Is there a reason you hadn't pre-agreed the fees between you, as presumably you're splitting the rent and equipment costs? Are the scouts paying for the venue or something big, which might explain the difference?
Saying they have to be on stage might be a bit harsh, as they could do backstage roles, but you're putting on a performance, so surely saying they can sit in the audience or not take part at all defeats the point of them coming along to rehearsals?
Also a note that you also might be making a rod for your own back by saying they can change their minds if they want, and you'll just shuffle stuff around, and it might be wise to put a date limit on this (if it's a project of a few weeks, maybe after 2 weeks no more changes).

I know our local gang show also has rules about expecting kids to turn up to all rehearsals and performances, and lays out dates before the audition stage, and has quite strict rules about uniform for performances. So if it's something big, with a wider, paying audience I do understand being much stricter on participation and rehearsal requirements.