How good would you expect to need to be for a £70k job?

[WalkLong]

At interview. I interview for much lower level jobs and sometimes successful candidates don't do that well, but we see something or they're the best we can get for the money

I've just interviewed for a public sector job with a salary of £70k. I've done a very similar job in another part of the public sector but not in this organisation.

I did 'OK'. There was a series of 121 "chats" with board members which were friendly and flowed easily, but I doubt that they gained anything inciteful from them.

There was a practical exercise sent in advance, which I think did very well at.

There was a presentation to prepare and deliver on the day. I think my content was good I Googled it, that's using initiative, right? but the presentation was far from polished.

Then there was a big panel interview. Some difficult questions, mostly tell us about when...I had some really good examples but at least 2 answers were a bit waffly and one I had practically nothing to offer, although I did try to fit my experience to the question.

So, at this level, is 100% necessary or does mostly pretty good have a chance?

I think you need to be pretty shit hot, yes. I'm going for roles at about that level and I wouldn't expect to receive an offer if I'd performed the way you describe in interview. Competition is pretty fierce the higher up you go.

You have to be on the money to get the job, but in the public sector at that level they don't get a huge number apply, so successful candidates get a little bit more leniency than at lower levels. If you've not heard by lunchtime tomorrow I'd be assuming you haven't got the post though. I based this on the fact that every job I've applied for and got I've typically heard that day from.

In my experience, at this salary, they expect your presentation skills to be outstanding and definitely polished.
You should also be answering the "tell us about when..." Questions with ease and confidence, but in a concise way, "I did this, and that, and the outcomes were..."
Obviously it depends on the industry, but for 70K they need to see someone who can hit the ground running. No waffle.

I'm at that level in public sector and they actually don't need you to be an expert at all aspects of the job. What they want is a good communicator and someone who they can see themselves being able to work with. In addition as it's a political environment you need awareness of the issues this will bring to the role.

Fingers crossed for you.

The job description/person spec doesn't actually require presentation skills at all?

But you'll be chairing quite senior meetings where those skills will come into their own

I won't be chairing, but the practical exercise that I had more time to prepare for and that went well involved delivering to the board.

some jobs in this salary range appear to require nothing in terms of personal skills and experience at all!

But you were required to prepare and deliver a presentation. They wanted you to have this skill.

I would say you need to do a few leadership courses and presentation & social communication skills ones. Otherwise you’ll be punching above your weight, you need to show skills beyond the pay grade. You need to show initiative, exceptional planning & organisational skills as well as spotting opportunities before you’re asked.

I would advise you to spend two years polishing your skills and building up your skill set before applying for a £70k job. Worth paying for presentation skills coaching via a frame or leadership professional.

I'm not sure they did actually, they wanted to hear how I'd approach the subject.

Surely it depends on the job! Lots of places don’t expect perfection at every skill for £70k.

Yes they did, they wanted you to present your ideas and wanted to hear your thoughts & how you’d broach the subject.

Presentation skills are a pretty basic requirement for any leadership role, very few leadership roles don't require some kind of public speaking, even if talking to an immediate team and being able to get messages across well.

But yes I would expect a leadership role (I'm assuming it will be in the public sector at that salary) that the way in which you conveyed the message is as important as the content.

If my old managers are anything to go by, not very .

It's interesting because I did get the job.

I knew when I applied it was a big step up, but also that I'm perfectly capable of doing it and took the view that I'd nothing to lose by trying.

Especially interesting is the advice that I should have waited before aiming so high. I think women are particularly disadvantaged precisely because we often don't aim high enough, never becuase we aim too high.

I think it's probably really rare for a candidate to score highly every single aspect for any job and would absolutely encourage women to apply for roles where they meet "most" of the criteria. On another day I may have been unsuccessful, but I wasn't and you've got to be in it to win it.

That's one of the reasons I felt confident enough to apply - I've seen the people who do these kinds of jobs! Some very good, some not so much.

@WalkLong completely agree OP, I try to go for the "do I think I can do it" mentality rather than, I know I can as I already have and have all the evidence to demonstrate up front. If that makes sense. Think like a man as they say....

Congrats on the job! In the civil service you have to score a minimum for each aspect, so you absolutely can be weaker in some areas, but you still have to meet the minimum requirement (a score of 4 out of 7 for each behaviour for example)

Good for you. You are quite right that women often hold themselves back by not just having a shot at applying for roles they're not 100% qualified for. I try to apply for roles if I think I'm 75% good enough - I am often (though not always) successful!

Congratulations!

Do you really think any man (or sane woman) is going to spend 2 years doing leadership courses and hiring a presentation coach before applying for a job?

Depends on the role and skills required. I'm in a fairly specialised role on that salary and wouldn't expect to have everything perfect at all.

Ah missed that you'd got it - well done! And yes, no man would worry enough to spend two years and £ getting skilled up!

Great well done OP, you’re totally right, you have to be in it to win it! I do think women talk themselves down too much, and judging by some men in leadership positions I’ve come across, they are certainly happy to talk themselves up!

Thing is, saying the salary is £70k gives very little indication, it depends entirely on the market. If it's say a senior IT/software development role in London then £70k is not an overly generous salary for the industry/location and so as a recruiter you'd be happy to find someone that has the technical skills and ability to do the job without much room to be fussy about them also being a super dynamic presenter as well. Whereas in some other jobs you'd be well oversubscribed with good candidates and it might come down to very fine margins/desirable criteria between one candidate and another. I can certainly tell you that at levels right up to board level/executive and 6 figure + salaries, people get jobs having performed absolutely sh*t at interview but have a brilliant CV/track record of achievement (or frankly because the organisation was desperate and just needed someone, anyone to do the job), but equally some really tip-top interview performance has not got the role because someone else just did a bit better or could offer something extra the other candidate just couldn't. It's really hard to predict and nothing magically changes about the process just because the salary has an extra 0 or the job title some fancy extra words on it! So OP you'll just have to sit tight and see, fingers crossed for you!