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If this happened in your workplace...

43 replies

WhoWants2Know · 30/03/2023 09:19

I think my sense of professionalism and appropriate office etiquette has been skewed by working in some very diverse environments, so I just want to get a reality check.

I work in an open plan office that ranges from half full to overflowing with staff depending on the day of the week. One member of staff has expressed (since they started) an issue with noise and being unable to concentrate when people are noisy. (However, the same colleague is apparently unaware when they are loud on the phone or in conversation)

Yesterday, it felt like out of the blue, they leaped up shouting at another colleague "I've told you over and over again to be quiet" and carried on ranting. Manager came between them and remonstrated and colleague continued arguing with the manager before storming out of the office.

The other colleague was in tears most of the day.

I don't think either colleague can change the way they hear or speak. If something like this happened in your place of work, what would happen?

OP posts:
Aintnosupermum · 30/03/2023 09:24

As a manager I would be furious with colleague who lost their temper. They would be given a formal warning via HR and put on a PIP. I don’t tolerate poor behavior and I do make an example of someone who so publicly lashes out at someone else.

I would have sent the crying person home for the day and told them tomorrow is a fresh start, the other person’s behavior isn’t acceptable and is being dealt with.

I would also make it clear the open plan space isn’t working. Telephone/meeting rooms are needed and I would make it damn clear to HR they need to establish some ground rules for employees to follow so this doesn’t happen again.

WhoWants2Know · 30/03/2023 09:42

That seems logical. We do have quiet rooms available and that particular colleague does often use them on days when the office is busy.

The downside of that is that a person in a quiet room will often miss out on information that would be picked up in the office by hearing a phone call or picking each other's brains. It's not a problem to an easy going person, but if someone feels like they want to know absolutely everything that goes on, being isolated isn't easy.

OP posts:
TrashyPanda · 30/03/2023 09:48

@Aintnosupermum is totally right.

this public display of temper needs to be addressed.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

iamcatz · 30/03/2023 09:50

It's unacceptable to shout at colleagues.
They would need to apologise and might have a meeting with the manager over it or HR.
The person being loud despite hating loud noise is normal. When it's very noisy people raise their voices to hear leading to more noise ironically but it's just what happens in a noisy environment.
The missing info by working in a room is not a convincing argument because:

  • If you were on the phone you would miss out on hearing what is being said anyway
  • If you were absorbed in your work you might miss verbal info easily
  • If there is important info it needs to be mass emailed to colleagues, people do this in regular offices
This person might have a condition or a disability where they get very distracted and easily stressed by noise and the work will be inaccurate or inefficient in a noisy open plan environment. They might have undiagnosed ADD/ADHD or autism.

The only reservation I would have is that it might lead to more people wanting to work solo more than there is room available.

Megifer · 30/03/2023 09:59

Shouty employee would be invited to an investigation hearing that would likely result in a disciplinary and probably given a formal written warning, wouldnt bother with a PIP as its a conduct rather than capability issue.

If they mentioned a condition relating to intolerance of noise during the investigation Id get an OH report to see if its classed as a disability and if so what reasonable adjustments could be put in place, but would probably continue with the disciplinary to set out expectations.

Aintnosupermum · 30/03/2023 15:13

I would have them on a PIP because I would be managing them out. I do not tolerate shouting or losing tempers like this.

WhoWants2Know · 30/03/2023 15:20

The shouting person did come back through and apologise. But I'm not sure anything more will happen.

Unfortunately it's not the first time they have gotten angry about (what seems like) normal level conversation in the office. It was the worst in that on this occasion it was aimed at one particular individual, and it was the first time it happened in front of the manager.

Since this person started, there have been repeated reminders to the whole team about our volume levels and being conscientious about walking over to each other's desks and speaking in a low volume. A lot of conversations are taken in another room, typed into teams, or emailed now. On most days lately there's just the clicking of keyboards in between phone calls, and people don't speak much. But on the two busiest days, the office is full and there are some conversations that need to happen.

I guess I feel that everyone has tried to be supportive by keeping the noise down but I'm not sure we can do much more as a team. I feel that unless that team member has a permanent separate place to work, the office is going to feel very uncomfortable.

OP posts:
WhoWants2Know · 02/04/2023 09:54

From what I can see, there's been no follow up or consequences following shouting colleague's outburst. They carried on sniping at another colleague when the manager was out of the office the following day.

Even if it's not directed at me, I'm not comfortable working in an environment where that kind of thing goes on. So I guess I'm looking at my options now

OP posts:
WeAreTheHeroes · 02/04/2023 10:02

Bluetooth noise cancelling headphones for calls will probably help with overall noise levels and people can wear them when not on calls if they find the conversations of others distracting. You don't mention anyone having them. Acoustic screens also provide sound insulation.

Ime the person who complains about this kind of thing is often the one who feels they are entitled to a separate working environment, i.e. their own office, but doesn't have one.

WeAreTheHeroes · 02/04/2023 10:03

WhoWants2Know · 02/04/2023 09:54

From what I can see, there's been no follow up or consequences following shouting colleague's outburst. They carried on sniping at another colleague when the manager was out of the office the following day.

Even if it's not directed at me, I'm not comfortable working in an environment where that kind of thing goes on. So I guess I'm looking at my options now

They're a bully, aren't they? I would report the continued sniping as it's unacceptable.

DisforDarkChocolate · 02/04/2023 10:11

This is why open plan offices are hell.

lljkk · 02/04/2023 11:11

Is the noise-hater using any sort of headphones, OP?

lljkk · 02/04/2023 11:12

Is the noise-hater using any sort of headphones, OP?

WhatFreshHeckle · 02/04/2023 11:18

Noise-hater should use noise-cancelling ear buds as already suggested.

I wouldn't be happy at all if someone yelled at another employee. That's totally unacceptable behaviour in an office or any workplace really.

Also think tough luck if they miss something by using quiet rooms and breakout areas. If they can't stand any noise that's that. They can always find a WFH job if they're that sensitive.

I don't like noisy offices but I have my own room these days (ooooo get me) and when I didn't I accepted it was my problem not anyone else's

ChocSaltyBalls · 02/04/2023 11:22

I’d expect the person who lost their temper to be disciplined, but IME they’d probably employ DARVO tactics to make themselves out to be the victim, and raise a grievance/go off sick, citing “work related stress”.

(work in HR and seen it allllll too often).

Mabelface · 02/04/2023 11:30

Colleague needs active/ hybrid mode cancelling headphones to cut out the background noise whilst they're working. On the now rare occasions I attend the office, these are an absolute must.

Mabelface · 02/04/2023 11:30

Noise, not mode

Dreamysaurus · 02/04/2023 11:34

I hate noise but I just request to sit elsewhere. (I've only had to do that once though!)

I think anyone who shouts at their colleague is awful and lacks self awareness. I wouldn't want to work with them and I'd never feel comfortable in their company again. Let's hope the angry person is deeply ashamed and humiliated themselves.

Let's also hope they don't come back.

I hate a bully

HecticHedgehog · 02/04/2023 11:37

I've no idea what would happen and nor does anyone else as we don't know the personal details of said colleague. If they have some sort of disability and appropriate reasonable adjustments aren't being made the company could well be discriminating by reprimanding them. But as no one knows either way....

Nimbostratus100 · 02/04/2023 11:41

too much noise can make the office environment intolerable and work impossible though. It seems it is too noisy for at least one colleague, and like to be too noisy for others, too, unless they are an extreme outlier

WhoWants2Know · 02/04/2023 12:10

We are all provided with headsets to use for phone calls, but their quality could probably be better. (Work are quite good about making adjustments or getting equipment if we ask.)

I think the colleague who shouted is one who uses the desk phone instead of the headset, but the option is there.

OP posts:
Aintnosupermum · 02/04/2023 13:50

ChocSaltyBalls · 02/04/2023 11:22

I’d expect the person who lost their temper to be disciplined, but IME they’d probably employ DARVO tactics to make themselves out to be the victim, and raise a grievance/go off sick, citing “work related stress”.

(work in HR and seen it allllll too often).

Exactly. As a manager I see right through these people in the workplace and remove them. They are like a cancer and if you don’t act quickly to remove them, the morale of the team goes quickly. It’s also the quickest way you can lose the trust of your team.

We work 10-12 hours a day in close quarters. It’s a very stressful time. I have been bullied and I am currently being bullied by superiors. I protect my team from that and it’s no shock that I have everyone coming to me now feeding me information.

As an aside, workplace bullying is very common and often goes unchecked. I am an expert in my field. Im humbled that the government call me for advice on managing money flows. However, I have certain people in the workplace who systematically undermine me, have screamed at me on calls where it’s just me and their team and have isolated me in terms of not including me when going out for drinks after work. It’s bullying.

This is how I have dealt with it:

I’m fortunate to have a strong network of support because I’m nice and very good at my job. I’m always learning and holding lunch and learns to keep my skills updated. It also helps me build a network. Pizza and salad is $150 but goes a long way.

On Friday the IT director asked me if I was going for drinks with the team. I told him I wasn’t invited. His response was to set up drinks with me on Wednesday and invite the team if they want to come along. I’ve saved his rear end multiple times. I have no doubt he doesn’t like the senior people who bully me.

Internal audit are going to see me have a dotted like to another department so I have air cover when bullied. I’ve also not held back when other departments have lied to internal audit about the process they say they follow. It’s set up that the audit will ask for evidence and of course there will be no evidence, therefore the person attacking me has to explain themselves.

The executive assistant who is supposed to cover me is an absolute bitch to me. I struggle with this one but have kept it strictly professional. Each time she fails to follow policy, I let her manager, who is also my manager, know and HR. She refuses to take phone messages for me and puts them through to voicemail. It’s not acceptable. I want a phone message emailed to me for a reason. It’s not personal, people who call me do not ever leave voicemails for ego reasons and, for one person, security reasons. For the men she emails phone messages.

HR asked me to attend DEI conferences and when published, I found glaring gaps in our ESG report. I’m now on the ESG council as the lead for governance.

In my industry group, I’m now the voting member for my firm and I’m on two panels talking about what is going on in my sector. I’m covering the tough topics everyone is struggling to address, not what people perceive to be soft subjects such as DEI, communicating across the org etc.

This gives me a lot of visibility so if the attacks continue they start to look like the ass they are. My employer also do not want to lose me.

Im sharing my approach because as women we are often targeted in the workplace and subjected to this behavior. Cry when you get home but never in the office. It hurts to be rejected but have faith that they attack you because it’s easier to do that than to admit their own shortcomings.

ChocSaltyBalls · 02/04/2023 14:11

HecticHedgehog · 02/04/2023 11:37

I've no idea what would happen and nor does anyone else as we don't know the personal details of said colleague. If they have some sort of disability and appropriate reasonable adjustments aren't being made the company could well be discriminating by reprimanding them. But as no one knows either way....

If they have a disability yes the company would need to take it into account and make adjustments but it’s not a carte Blanche to be allowed to bully other staff

WhoWants2Know · 07/04/2023 13:25

Update: What happened in this particular workplace was nothing. Re-start as if nothing had happened.

The colleague who had been on the receiving end of the shouting and cried was on leave, so wasn't around.

I had requested leave but it wasn't approved, so I was in the office and not in a great headspace. (For lots of reasons, not any one thing)

I'm quietly getting on with my work at my desk, facing the computer. Every time the boss steps out of the office, either the shouting colleague or another one starts asking:

"Why are you so quiet?"

"What's wrong?"

"When was the last time you took some leave? You should take some time off."

I pointed out that yes, I could do with some time off, but it wasn't approved. I said I wasn't in a great mood so I was just getting on with work until home time."

Later when we were alone, the shouting colleague asked if I was quiet because of her outburst and I told her that was part of it. She apologised and I said I wasn't looking for an apology and I understood that she had been having a bad day-- but I can't predict when it's ok to talk in the office and when it's going to cause a reaction. So I don't feel much like chatting.

I feel like the problem isn't with noise levels at all, but with the coworkers attention span. They can't focus if someone is talking too loud, but apparently working quietly is just as much of an issue.

OP posts:
suzyscat · 07/04/2023 13:33

Oh gosh I was this person. I found open plan offices nearly impossible to cope with yet can't control the volume/ pace of my own voice.

Mumsnet cliche I know but turns out I was ND all along. Defo worth your colleague looking into ASD/ADHD etc.