Surrogacy and newborn baby - does it impact the baby?

[Lemonaade]

Seen a few threads recently on this and I’m just intrigued- some people say it’s not fair to the baby. But how does the baby know? Apart from later in life when they find out.

Do they know as a newborn they’ve been taken away from its mother? What is the impact on the baby?

The logic of how important we are told the 4th Trimester is for newborns tells us how crucial that bond is.

The baby knows their mother’s voice, the regularity of her heartbeat, etc. It can’t not be, at the very least, distressing for them.

When a baby is born all it recognises is the smell, taste, heartbeat and voice of its mother. It even recognise her body movements from being perched between her hips for so many months. That is ALL it wants. It's MOTHER. Not the person who the egg came from. Not the man the siren came from. It doesn't care a fig for genetics. The woman that grew the entire baby inside her. That's the mother and its what the baby needs.

Adoption centres the baby/child. It makes the best of a bad situation with the child needs being paramount.

Surrogacy flips that model on its head. It prioritise the purchasing parents WANTS first and foremost. Then the surrogates. Then right at the bottom it's the baby. The baby is almost an afterthought.

@glasshole i agree.

When my ds was born, we were being wheeled separately to the ward and anytime ds was further than a metre away, he would start crying. As soon as he was wheeled back next to me, he quietened. It was amazing.
The nurses were very aware as the first time it happened, they told my dh off as he was wheeling the baby.
They explained 'mum and baby must stay close'
Newborns know when they're taken away from the mum.

What @glasshole said. Spot on.

Yes, newborns know their mother. They are aware on a very real level that they have been separated. It's extremely cruel.

This article covers some of the research that shows the connection between mum and baby pre-birth. It’s fascinating stuff
https://parentingscience.com/newborns-and-the-social-world/

I think there will be a longing for the familiar, and the baby will know he/she has been taken from their mother, but that after a while they will forget, and get used to the new parents. How long that will take, I don't know. But, adopted people sometimes say they always knew before they were told, always felt different.

I find it really sick when anyone tries to deny that a newborn and it's mother have no connection. You wouldn't say that about any other species would you?

Denies they have a connection that should read

Sorry about the double negative

"If a puppy is separated from its mom before the eight week mark there is also the likelihood that it will be particularly sensitive to psychological and physical disturbances. The separation from their mothers, littermates and familiar environments may result in fear, distress and impaired learning."

Yet for some reason it's okay for surrogate-born babies?

Ok, I'm not discounting what has been said, but what about premmies? My 33 weeker couldn't see me or have me near for 6ish hours because she and I were both trying not to die, and she couldn't be held for 3 days. The NICU actively dissuaded me from touching in the early days beyond containment touch due to the stimulation.. is my DD irreparably damaged? I don't believe so. And what about maternal death during birth, rare in the Western world but what then?

Whilst surrogacy is by definition unnatural, if the child is raised by a loving parent or parents, are we saying they will be irreparably damaged?

I appreciate the best possible case for a child is a natural conception and birth, but this seems like a thread in poor taste for those who do not have the luxury of perfect natural conception, and a perfect after birth experience of the 4th trimester. The tone of this thread is demonising all based on some. There are some who persue surrogacy for the wrong reasons but there are many many more who take that choice as it's the only one they have.

Oh wow. God then really it’s terrifying for those poor babies :(

@Mummaganoush my son was premature and spent 6 weeks in scbu without me . He is sooo attached to me you would never know and is the most loving empathetic boy .
We had no choice to be separated ( I wasn't allowed to stay even if I could have ) but it hasn't affected our relationship

I'm not arguing your point but just saying

Preemies, a lot like children that are removed from their mothers are all risk assessed beefier decisions are made. Of course you couldn't touch your little over when they were very small and vulnerable but that has been risk assessed and is deemed that the infection risk is greater than the benefits of close skin contact. But in a perfect world there would be no preemies or surrtogacy or adoption. But it's not perfect. So we have to make the most of bad situations. There are lots of studies that show that some babies DO go on to have issues after being born prematurely and /or being separated from their mum. That's why we all know it's so important to keep mum as baby together wherever possible.

But babies being in isolation in NICU are there in the baby's best interest. It isn't by choice.

Parents of surrogate born babies take the baby away from the mother by choice. Not in the best interest of the baby, or the birth mother, in the best interest of the intended parents.

@Mummaganoush - will your daughter's experience have affected her? Yes. I'm sure your voice and smell was really helpful to your daughter but in an ideal world she would have enjoyed your touch too. But you weren't able to because her HCPs had to make a choice between optimum emotional well-being and physical survival.

And it's absurd to suggest that a baby who has survived the death of its mother won't be adversely impacted.

Surrogacy is deliberately removing a baby from its mother because someone else has bought it.

You and your child have lived through a worse case scenario, and your child will still feel on some level how it felt to be in you then reunited with you, and have worked through that together.

To deliberately inflict infant separation for no reason other than greed is not the same thing at all.

@Mummaganoush I don't think anyone is saying infants separated in some way from their mother at or shortly after birth are 'irreparably damaged'. Or that they will all have attachment of emotional difficulties.

However, there is a protective effect of maternal proximity and connection after birth and early separation is thought to correlate with an elevated risk of emotional or mental health challenges.

To me, all that I think that matters is the love the baby gets. That's all. I do think some parents who have no blood relation to the baby can give the baby a better life. There are people who wants a baby and can't have them. If both parties are happy with it, what's the problem? Some babies who are born and raised by their real mother, can end up in a shitty life.

I agree with the points made, mostly, but will just make a few points..

I couldn't hold her whilst she had a central line not due to a risk of infection, just pragmatism.

Using irreparably damaged I was being deliberately hyperbolic, as was drawing a parallel between maternal death.
(I would quote but I've no idea how, sorry!)

The poster who said their premmie was a velcro child, Same!
The poster who said about working through I also agree we've worked through the event together, similar to the poster who said my voice and proximity would have helped, I agree.

The poster (forgive me I'm a dullard and can't do quotes) who said about surrogacy being based on greed... This is the side of the argument I disagree with, on the simple premise that it's a generalisation. The MSM publicises this side, particularly seemingly now with Paris Hilton and Rebel Wilson, but like so much else, that's not representative of all is it?

For the record Rebel Wilsons approach, or the side she shows on Instagram, does support the negatives, I agree, her child seems to be an accessory.

I merely object to the all surrogacy is greed, having had a friend and fellow MNer surrogate for the same family twice. It was done in love.

As a mum of a 28 weeker I agree with everything @glasshole says. I know being separated from my baby damaged me and I have some PTSD from the whole experience. I’m certain it would have also damaged DD in some way.
There’s good reason and a wealth of research why parents of preemies are encouraged to do kangaroo care and I know our DDs heart rate was lower when she was with me rather than my husband.

I can only speak for my own experience. DD’s birth was very problematic and I had a pretty massive PPH. Once they had sorted it all out we had me, dh and dd in a room together. I was drifting in and out if consciousness.

The midwives started worrying about dd. Her colour was wrong, her heartbeat was really high and she was doing these little moaning gasps.

The midwife got dh (who had been cuddling dd all this time) to put dd on my chest.

Within minutes dd got much much better.

I have very little memory of this. I was very very ill at the time. But dd knew exactly who I was. She needed me.

Wow so many nasty comments on here. It’s bloody awful to be telling people that have had babies in NICU that their child will be damaged because they weren’t able to be helped immediately due to health issues.

@Mummaganoush please don’t listen to anyone who has never been in your position. I doubt very much your child has ‘irreversible’ damage. It’s not all down to the 4th trimester as pp’s have said

There are people who wants a baby and can't have them

Just because someone wants something doesn't mean they get it regardless.

Surrogacy is human trafficking as far as I'm concerned.