More teacher strikes, Thursday 27th April, Tuesday 2nd May

[noblegiraffe]

Fair warning, the NEU have said that if their members vote to reject the derisory government pay offer, they will immediately announce two further strike dates.

"If you vote to reject this offer, the executive has agreed to notify two further days of strike action on Thursday, 27 April and Tuesday, 2 May. The executive has agreed to seek local agreements with head teachers to ensure exam preparation is not interrupted for Years 11 and 13."

From the response on edutwitter and from colleagues, I think the offer will be rejected.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4772501-up-yours-gillian-keegan-teacher-pay-offer

You've completely misread my post- my point is that your estimations of teacher take home pay are too high, not too low. No-one, including those on UPS, is having deductions to their take home pay of £100. No-one on mainscale actually has a take home pay of "well over £2000 a month" unless they've opted out of the TPS, which generally suggests that they are in a shit financial position to start with.

As you clearly don't understand the financial position of the majority of teachers, I'd kindly suggest you stop commenting on this issue. You're clearly in a much better financial position than a lot of young teachers. A lot of young teachers are in significant debt, too.

I know people where the strike is causing them significant financial hardship- and you've clearly shown you've got no idea what the financial/work security situation is like for a lot of ECTs for example. They are still striking, because they see it as the only option for the future of education.

75% of teachers are women btw.

You clearly haven't put a second of thought into actually understanding the financial position of teachers, and your posts are actually deeply undermining a lot of the arguments teachers are making.

Perhaps you could take some time to understand the issues, and show a bit of solidarity, rather than posting things that are factually incorrect and undermine the industrial action we are taking?

It's the Easter holidays- heads don't actually work 365 days a year. The strike dates were announced very recently, and many heads don't actually know how it will impact them yet as there are "local negotiations" around exams etc.

It's also possible something will come out of the NAHT conference that impacts how (some) heads behave.

For clarity, given what's posted up thread, I just want to talk about take home pay for main scale teachers. Although we get a good pension, the contributions are 8.6% for most main scale teachers. On top of this, the vast majority of main scale teachers will have student loans.

For a teacher outside London on M6 with my student loans and my pension contributions, take home pay is £2144 a month. I am not suggesting that's not a comfortable salary, but in terms of strike day deductions, it works out at about £70 per day, not over £100 as previously suggested.

For a teacher on M1 (i.e. an ECT in most cases), take home pay is 1668. Around here, probably £700 of that is going in rent, but that's a separate issue.

I think this is the other issue when comparing salaries with other professions- in terms of, e.g., your ability to get a mortgage- M3/M4 is quite a bit lower in take home pay than it would be for people who don't have student loans and aren't paying an excessive amount into a pension.

I know the pension is good, but it's hard to feel that benefit at 25, and for those who stay in the profession less than 5 years, it is pretty much wasted money if you move to the private/third sector.

A lot of people who move out of teaching actually find they get a similar take home pay on a slightly lower salary, which is another point which needs to be made about starting salaries.

Also, for clarity, most NEU branches have set up hardship funds. If you've just joined the NEU and are worried about striking because of the financial cost, then please do speak to your local branch and they will explain how to apply. Most will cover the full deduction to your salary for each strike day, although it is usually retrospective, unfortunately.

How does a salary of say, £53,000 on UPS before any TLR, translate to less than £100 when it's £145 (and somebody in support on would have a £100 deduction on £27,000 or £145 would require a salary of £39,000)?

At every point of the scale, support staff lose a higher proportion of their pay for striking than teachers do. Plenty have student loans, plenty have pensions, plenty have debt, particularly as if they aren't in a Green Book school, there's a very good chance that they haven't had any progression in the last six years and when teachers have had cost of living increases agreed, it's historically always more than that agreed for support. Teachers didn't refuse their 5% when Green Book support at most got 3% because it wasn't fair on support (wouldn't expect them to, but some recognition of the fact that they do better every year than even the most secure support, even when it's still a real terms cut would have been nice).

Perhaps you should therefore refrain upon commenting about support staff pay and conditions if you don't have a great deal of knowledge about it?

How does a salary of say, £53,000 on UPS before any TLR

Eh? UPS stops at £43k

@Postapocalypticcowgirl at my school it is absolutely support staff who are keeping it open on strike days. My Head and her deputy are SO against strikes that they kept school open using TAs who had only been in the job since September (as well as HLTAs). We have 9/14 teachers striking. School stayed open! Also, on those days, cakes and other 'staffroom treats' were provided for anyone in school 🤬 Absolute joke!!

We were so demoralised by the whole thing!! And also spoken to quite harshly for even considering striking...we should 'be in, for the children' 🤦‍♀️🤷‍♀️😲

Eh? Some people live and work in London.

Currently, UPS in inner London maxes out at £50,935.

Why are you picking a future maximum salary from the most well-paid part of the country to try to make a point? And then acting like it was plucked at random?

The NEU differs in this https://neu.org.uk/pay-scales

It's £53,482. The poster said that nobody on UPS earns more than £100 a day. When some do - in the area of highest house prices. And nobody on UPS takes home more than £2000pcm is incorrect as well.

If the NEU have got their figures wrong, I'd be surprised. Especially as that's discounting TLRs which can represent an entire member of Support's salary for the year (up to an additional £14,723 for top TLR1), or if they've adopted a Lead Practitioner Scale, which is another way for somebody stuck on their £43-53k plus TLR to increase without moving onto Leadership scales - up to £76,675.

There's a huge difference between £970 pcm and those figures. And it should be taken into account that means any support staff striking are making a greater sacrifice than a member of teaching - so should not be judged if they don't vote for or can't strike because they have significantly more to lose from it.

Ah, the NAS had the 2022 figures. Apologies.

I am not minded to lambast support staff for not going out on strike, everyone has their own battles. However their pay is totally shit and I wish they would go out on strike to force the issue.

Incidentally, at my school, members of other unions were instructed to cross the picket line. No refusal allowed. This was agreed with the unions.

Headteachers and SLT are the ones that I would urge to join the teacher strike action. Their time may be coming. Fingers crossed.

No worries.

Heads and SLT striking would have more effect. Although they would then have to follow up by persuading Governors/Members to approve raises to Support as well as Teaching if they're not Green Book. Which can be more complicated - you'd also need to get COOs and CFOs on board and, as their entire setup is geared around 'do we have enough money?', they could do a lot to bring pressure to bear upon the government. Can you imagine if Harris used their influence to increase revenue funding whether through the GAG or for maintained schools via the LA?

The Academy chains need to join in. Even if they aren't Burgundy Book, even if they're busy looking for the next tasty little batch of SATs or unattended maintained schools to snaffle up. Get the MATs onside and they've got a huge amount of influence they could be using to benefit teaching, support and students/pupils.

Complain to your child(ren)'s head teachers! I teach secondary and our head has closed the school for years 7-11 on all strike days and informed parents about it in advance. He's very supportive of the strikes though, to the extent that they send/ bring hot drinks and pastries to the staff on the picket line.

That's atrocious! How does your school even know who is in a union, let alone which one? There's no obligation to inform them of anything.

How does your school even know who is in a union, let alone which one? There's no obligation to inform them of anything.

Teachers might be able to get away with refusing to cross a picket because they could plausibly be in the NEU, but support staff wouldn't be able to.

@Cantseethewindows honestly I don't want to be the one to moan... but I think I might have to. I'm a single parent and I feel awful I'm going to have to swop my shifts round for both these dates!

I think this is the case in a lot of primary schools, hence the need to re ballot. Otherwise, this will drag on and on and be worse for everyone.

If TAs do not normally cover classes, they should not be covering classes on strike days.

The head is not allowed to treat you detrimentally for striking, or put pressure on you not to strike. If you've not got a union rep in school, do get in contact with your local branch (you can find details on the NEU website, or feel free to DM me if you're unsure). I'm sure they would love to remind your head of their legal duty.

I also assume your head isn't a member of the NAHT, as she is going against her own union's advice, and I think if, e.g. a child had an accident when they were not being "properly" supervised on a strike day, they might not back her up as much as she would hope.

Actually, support staff have the legal right to refuse to cross a picket line. This is taken from the NEU FAQs, which is taken from the local government association guidelines on picketing:

Local Government Association advice on picketing says: “Where picketing takes place, employees not directly involved in the industrial action may refuse to cross picket lines. Such employees can normally be regarded as being on strike and treated accordingly.”

https://nationaleducationunion.foleon.com/pay-up-save-our-schools/save-our-schools-members-hub/?overlay=support-staff-in-england-faqs

I know support staff who've refused to cross, and they do get docked a day's pay, but that is it- same as if they were striking.

I would obviously welcome the NAHT/ASCL coming out on strike with us BUT I do think heads are under different pressures/face different issues to us.

There are definitely a lot of heads who feel the 4.5% offer would be acceptable, if it just had been funded. I definitely don't think people on leadership pay spines really understand the reality of being a young(ish) teacher with student loans, with childcare to pay for etc- and just how tight things are for a lot of people.

For most teachers I know in their late 20s-early 30s, the 4.5% would help them break even financially, nothing more. And so another year of high inflation would eat that up, and then we'd be back where we started.

And then we look at our uni friends in other industries, who seem much less stressed and more financially comfortable, and wonder.

My impression is that heads don't quite get this- they understand it's difficult to recruit, but they haven't quite got to the bottom of WHY. And, being blunt, when they don't recruit, it doesn't impact them in quite the same immediate way.

@Postapocalypticcowgirl we had colleagues who weren’t eligible to strike choose not to cross but that was because my head had confirmed support and said the only action would be loss of pay.

Legally anyone can choose not to cross, BUT you are only legally protected from dismissal and could have other action taken against you on top of losing pay. A cumulation of which could make life difficult. Some other schools near us (MATs) would have had a disciplinary meeting and out notes on files etc…. So it does depend a little on the employers attitude.

@Comii9 you should be angry, just make sure to direct that at the right place which is the government.

If this action is not taken and if funding for schools is not improved your child is very likely not to have a specialist maths or science teacher at some point (or much of) secondary. (I am assuming they are currently primary if you have look after them).

No teacher wants to be on strike. None of us want to be out of the classroom. But we can see the damage that lack of funding is having on our pupils. In my school that is our main motivator - teachers are turning down the pay offer (that benefits them) because this has to come from existing budgets and therefore deprives our students.

@MrsHerculePoirot I'm not moaning about the strike at all. I'm moaning because I am a single parent working in a hospital with no family on hand.... I would simply like a txt from the head so I can show my boss and try and swop my shifts with a couple of weeks notice at least.

You don't need to lecture me I gather why EVERYONE is striking I have never begrudge anybody. Good luck to all...

@Comii9 apologies. Although none of that was evident in your post though tbf. You just said you didn’t want to be the one to moan…. then did!

The date of the vote ended in the school holidays so your head should not be working then. The potential dates of the strikes have been stated since the pay vote started.

You’ll be aware that strikers don’t have to announce their intention to strike in advance so it is tricky. I’m assuming for my own kids it will be the same as the previous four days of strikes at their school so planning for them to be off now. If they’ve been off all four other dates then probably best to do the same maybe and assume they’ll also be off again?

@MrsHerculePoirot somebody said to me I should tell the school! I replied back to that poster. RTFT.

To be honest I never said a bad word about the teachers. I just moaned about the lack of notice as in its on Google so the head should update the school sites. If your going to comment make sure you have understood all my posts before getting the wrong end of the stick.

I'm aware of how strikes work. I can't be arsed to argue with you your coming across really arsey and there is no need at all. I explained my situation read it how you like.

I have took those dates.... BUT my rota is already completed FFS. The head doesn't have to... but it was the SAME for the last dates also.

Like I said I am not against anybody striking at all. I completely get that part.

Do you seriously think I work in a hospital and I haven't already planned accordingly? Of course I have I stopped my shifts today I don't need a lecture for the 2nd time!

@Comii9 I’m really not lecturing you. You said you didn’t know whether to change your shifts and I just suggested you go on what happened in your kids school last time.

I’ve read back again in case I’ve missed something. I’m reading it as you’re saying that your headteacher didn’t inform you about the strikes at all…. And someone suggested you took that up with your school.

Both the schools my kids attend sent a message giving us the dates and saying they would confirm what was happening once they’d done a risk assessment. Then emailed us a few days/week before with what was happening for each year group/the school.

Are you saying that your kids school didn’t even tell you there were strikes at all? So parents just turned up on the day or didn’t if they looked it up on Google?!? Or just they didn’t let you know weeks in advance?

Naswut has rejected the offer too