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Original poster

What should the NHS not fund?

536 replies

Username721 · 15/03/2023 20:45

Saw a thread on IVF for lesbians and some people felt that IVF should not be for anyone on the NHS. So it got me thinking.

Is there anything you feel should be exclusively private treatment? The ones often debated are things like weight loss surgery, cosmetic procedures, treatment for avoidable illness such as smoking-induced ones, liver failure through alcohol abuse, drug rehabilitation…

Thoughts?

OP posts:
sausagekitten · 15/03/2023 23:03

@MamaBear1022

👏👏

BluebellBlueballs · 15/03/2023 23:03

FlyOnAWing · 15/03/2023 22:58

Christ this thread really is a place for stupid people to splurge their stupid opinions.

Are you Including your own opinion in that?

AnneLovesGilbert · 15/03/2023 23:04

AllOfThemWitches · 15/03/2023 22:48

It isn’t. It’s also not funded if their partner has children. A woman could be infertile and need IVF to conceive but get no funding because her partner who is fertile has an adult child, even if she’d never met them.

Well that'll teach me not to do my research. I didn't know that, I obviously think that's unfair and makes no sense whatsoever.

I wasn’t having a pop, sorry if it came across that way. It’s mad! But that’s how it is.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

General health
Groutyonehereagain · 15/03/2023 23:05

KnockedOverSandcastle · 15/03/2023 22:27

Thing is, is that these are two very separate waiting lists. One does not affect the other because its very separate departments and specialists and surgeons.

Show quote history

I used to work in theatre. Operations are carried out by large teams of staff, not just the surgeon from a specific specialty. Staff can be deployed into any of the theatres running. Therefore if staff are working on gender reassignment, they can’t be working on cancer operations.

Groutyonehereagain · 15/03/2023 23:07

goinggoinggoneagain · 15/03/2023 23:01

I don't think the NHS should be put in the position of being judge and jury over what is 'self inflicted' or not. What an ugly, judgemental system that would be.

Breaking news, it’s already happening.

FlyOnAWing · 15/03/2023 23:08

BluebellBlueballs · 15/03/2023 23:03

Are you Including your own opinion in that?

Show quote history

Nope.

XenoBitch · 15/03/2023 23:09

Anything that counselling could sort out.. so possibly fertility issues, cosmetic issues etc

Ikeameatballs · 15/03/2023 23:09

thecatsthecats · 15/03/2023 21:55

It's not so much not funding things on the NHS, but two things in particular that would radically redraw the health of the nation:

  • cheaply available healthy food and plenty of opportunities for free leisure and exercise, plus a ban on ultra processed food.
  • dignified euthanasia.

Gut health, sleep, exercise and nutrition are hugely linked to good health outcomes. Including mental health disorders. You can't prevent a broken bone nearly so easily as you can obesity, anxiety, heart problems, etc.

And if people lived healthy, fulfilling lives, then maybe they'd be more at peace with giving them up rather than fighting death with invasive and dehumanising treatments.

Completely agree.

there would need to be a period of double funding, you can’t immediately withdraw the services that exist but everyone should have access to 5 free fruit and veg/day and the opportunity to exercise in a way which is supportive and encouraging.

Tax highly processed foods ++ just like we do cigarettes.

Honeyroar · 15/03/2023 23:09

golden1989 · 15/03/2023 21:41

Never a truer thing said.

I'm really saddened to learn that people have such a strong opinion against this.

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I totally disagree. I am infertile. I don’t think IVF should be NHS. The country simply can’t afford it. Have you been to hospital in an emergency lately? It’s dire. We HAVE to cut back non essential things. I tried for years to have a baby. Failed. I know how it hurts. I really bloody do. But it’s not going to kill me. I have had to learn to deal with it. Life is shit sometimes.

PinocchiPinocchio · 15/03/2023 23:11

Silly topic to be debating, ivf and gender reassignment are not lifestyle choices! The biggest drain on NHS finances is missed appointments…I work for the NHS and know this first hand.
People don’t value it because it’s free, with no immediate personal repercussions.
Please attend or cancel appointment.

NeonBoomerang · 15/03/2023 23:13

MintJulia · 15/03/2023 21:13

I wouldn't give a&e space to rolling drunks over the age of 18.

Town centre drunk tanks can patch them up. They are the last thing that genuinely sick and injured people need, and a waste of nhs nursing resource.

Biscuit from someone who works at one of the biggest A&E departments in England. Do you honestly think it's that simple?!

BluebellBlueballs · 15/03/2023 23:17

PinocchiPinocchio · 15/03/2023 23:11

Silly topic to be debating, ivf and gender reassignment are not lifestyle choices! The biggest drain on NHS finances is missed appointments…I work for the NHS and know this first hand.
People don’t value it because it’s free, with no immediate personal repercussions.
Please attend or cancel appointment.

It would help if NHS didn't outsource their appointment letters to substandard companies who don't actually send them.

I missed 2 appointments due to this and was told it was a frequent occurrence that patients were not receiving appointment letters since they outsourced

FlyOnAWing · 15/03/2023 23:17

Yeah put anyone rolling drunk or who seems drunk altogether in a big room to sober up. I mean some will die and others who appeared drunk will really have head injuries, but thats what happens if you go out at the weekend. You can't expect the NHS to respond to that type of behaviour.

albapunk · 15/03/2023 23:18

The amount of dentures, hearing aids, glasses, support stockings etc provided by the NHS for people in nursing homes is astoundingly when a high % of people I look after refuse to wear/use the items and often encouraging use causes distress, and they are often pushed for by family members despite the wearer/user not wanting them.

Also from an HCA point of view, I think the NHS and society as a whole really needs to think about when to draw the line with medical intervention. I have seen advanced dementia sufferers get cataracts surgery, joint replacements etc often with no improvement on quality of life. Huge amounts of medication being used to keep people alive, with horrific quality of life rather than simple symptom and pain management.

I know that makes me sound almost un-caring but over the years, my only wish is that everyone has a dignified and peaceful exprience towards the end of their life, and sometimes I think we meddle too much.

Cosmetic surgery is extremely hard to come by on the NHS and is often not done to the quality and neatness of a private surgery, even though its often the same surgeon!

albapunk · 15/03/2023 23:19

On a side note, I often wonder if we all paid £1 per visit to the GP or hospital....the NHS would surely make a fortune, maybe we could have a wee lotto on the go! Hah!

Eyerollcentral · 15/03/2023 23:19

SquashPenguin · 15/03/2023 20:59

If funding for fertility treatment was stopped then I believe maternity care should be self funded after a certain number of kids. You want them, you pay for them after all?

Why do you want to deny women health care? And babies? Maternity care is not comparable to fertility treatment at all. How would it possibly be fair to the baby being born? They haven’t chosen it.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 15/03/2023 23:19

Angeldelight50 · 15/03/2023 21:49

This. I do not understand how people can say GRS is not essential when we know the repercussions denial to GRS has on mental health, is life threatening.

The percentage of trans people in the UK must be fairly small, but from what I see on MN, you would think they are the route of all problems 🙄.

Show quote history

They certainly are the route to many health problems for those who have taken inappropriate hormones, had parts of their bodies lopped off, or changed their urinary systems.

Tropicaliyes · 15/03/2023 23:21

@FlyOnAWing home healthcare is a thing! Check it out! It is put in place for people with serious health conditions, OAPs or people with a legit reason they cannot get to hospital!

I had a surgical feeding tube placed 6 years ago, was meant to be done fully inpatient with me staying in a few days.. I had it done as day surgery and was out in a few hours after the procedure!

In the 5 years I had my tube in, I had nurses sent to my house when they were needing to do checks, occasionally they asked me to come inpatient for changes but when I refused, they taught me to change it at home without even needing them to “watch over me”. Had i of gone in they would have taken up a bed, take a nurse from a patient that needs actual care, more equipment than needed and depending on how the replacement went might of had to stay in! If I needed IV fluids that’s something that could be done at home too (as I was told by my care team) instead of me taking up a bed, except I never used that service.

I am again even told now in my pregnancy I can ask for IV fluids at home for my HG however when I call the emergency line I need to be admitted for fluids if i go through that route, but take a different route and I don’t need to take up that added bed!

We have ambulatory care at my hospital and you will see some people (all chronically sick) having their treatments in a waiting room even though they look really sick and then they will go home, many of these people choose this option instead of fully being admitted into a ward and getting the same treatment.. the difference is that they have a dedicated place to put these people to facilitate to them being treated outpatient should they want that (that’s not available everywhere).

might sound like “bollocks” to you but if you haven’t had the experience you need to sit down and reserve your rude comments.

Tilllly · 15/03/2023 23:21

scoobydoo1971 · 15/03/2023 21:40

The NHS should not fund any non-attended appointments with community or hospital based professionals, unless there is some good cause for not turning up. The amount of non-attended appointments is startling and the staff are still paid to sit there waiting for the patient who never turned up. There should be a fine system or some kind of sanction due to the waste of public funds. I know the various reminder services that are deployed in the NHS to remind about appointments work a bit, but if people knew they would be fined for not having the courtesy to cancel or reschedule then it would shorten wait-lists.

Yes!! Absolutely this!

Harrysarseinthedogbowl · 15/03/2023 23:22

sausagekitten · 15/03/2023 22:57

Unless you have suffered the unimaginable heartbreak, grief and mental turmoil that infertility causes I cannot imagine how anybody could want another human to be deprived IVF on the nhs due to medical factors out of their control.

Infertility is not a choice.

Of course it's not a choice, but you do have the choice to accept it and find something else to do with your life.

Tilllly · 15/03/2023 23:22

Hooklander · 15/03/2023 21:49

How about MRI scans for spinal damage? Because I just had to pay for my own.

That's shocking
Why?

sausagekitten · 15/03/2023 23:23

@Harrysarseinthedogbowl

Ah great, thanks for the excellent advice.

Lovelyring · 15/03/2023 23:24

Prescriptions for paracetamol and other drugs you can buy super easily and cheaply. I was offered one once and was flabbergasted, declined, and went and bought my own.

Eyerollcentral · 15/03/2023 23:25

AnneLovesGilbert · 15/03/2023 21:14

People who don’t think the NHS should fund IVF, would you stop funding for any assisted fertility things like clomid, surgery for endo, treatment for recurrent miscarriage, miscarriage surgery?

Clomid - yes stop
Surgery for endo - this is treatment for a health condition that effects the sufferer’s health and can cause further problems if left untreated
Recurrent miscarriage- investigation is needed to find out if there is an undiscovered medical issue that needs treatment
Miscarriage surgery - this is treatment without which the sufferer may develop sepsis and die
Infertility is terrible for those suffering from it. However wanting a baby is just that, a want, not a health need. The comparison between your first example and those that follow are not apt.

Eyerollcentral · 15/03/2023 23:27

SquashPenguin · 15/03/2023 21:19

If we got rid of it all, then people should pay for their own maternity care. You want to have a kid, you pay the ££££ is costs the NHS every time you want to have one. It’s not a right to have kids after all, and it’s self inflicted. So why not? No one ever wants to know when the argument is turned on its head!

Show quote history

Maternity care is health care for a medical need for the mother and baby. Fertility treatment is a want.