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Original poster

30 hours for 1.5 year olds and over expected tomorroe

257 replies

QforCucumber · 14/03/2023 18:45

As per the attached! This would help people so much

30 hours for 1.5 year olds and over expected tomorroe
OP posts:
Hellohellomrt · 15/03/2023 07:18

@VeryLowTum OK lol

Funding · 15/03/2023 07:18

MrsKT123 · 14/03/2023 23:33

You should get the 15 hours.

It will be interesting to see if the 15 hours will also apply to 1 and 2 year olds.

I think it's a great thing something is being done to support working parents, in particular those in essential jobs that often are not well / fairly paid. I just hope the nurseries are fairly paid and there is a plan to help support the increased demand.

Personally, if it's only those eligible for 30 hours and those over £100k get nothing (and not 15 hours) then there will be no change for us. I don't think this is a bad thing as we're in a very fortunate position that means we don't worry about paying the bill each month and childcare costs haven't impacted my choice to return to work or if we have more children - so not we're not the people this is intended to support.

If I was being selfish (and to be clear, I'm not) then this could potentially negatively impact us in terms of poorer care for our 18 month old with increased ratios and more difficulty finding places for any future children.

It does feel like people earning between £100-125k are really penalised and this could amplify it further, as there are so many tax / benefit implications of hitting £100k so can see OPs point. Especially if it was only one parent.

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Thanks, agree. It's overall good but just hope it's implemented well.

The penalty between 100-120k is actually not just like a tax (you give away a percentage). It means your take home salary is really reduced by earning over 100k. Earn 99k and you are subsidized, earn £101 and your salary goes down by loads. It's best to not take that 1k. That's fine in that you can donate to charity. But if you earn £20k over and all that goes, then you might as well go part time as you are being paid nothing for 1 day a week. No one likes working for free 1 day a week, even if they are fortunate enough to have a high paying job (which can mean crazy hours on each if the 5 days).

WeWereInParis · 15/03/2023 07:21

MotherOfLunatics · 15/03/2023 07:07

The issue is the government calling it "X amount of hours", rather than "EY funding". As some people have already said the 30hr government funding equates to roughly £4.46p/h, the school/nursery I work at charges £15.50p/h, there's a £330 hole per eligible child, covered by those that dont currently receive funding. Most nurseries cannot afford to provide 30hrs free to all pre-schooler, increasing this to younger children will result in closure of lots of nursery.

If the government simply stated £X of early years funding per year, and then allowed nurseries to set an hourly rate that would allow them to factor the cost of rent, utilities etc. It would be a much better system.

£15.50 an hour!! Is that a typo?

MajorCarolDanvers · 15/03/2023 07:23

It will take a quite a few years to implement

Going by what's happened in Scotland with the rollout of free 30 hours for every 3 and 4 year old.

There wasn't actually enough capacity in the system

To now add 1 and 2 year old will take while to get enough places.

Mamansparkles · 15/03/2023 07:26

There is so much pessimism on this thread. I'm not a Tory but this could be life changing for so many parents.
Why don't we wait and see the detail before wailing that it's terrible news and nurseries will all close - they might be funding better per hour (suggestions are that funding rates are increasing), or they might allow top up fees now.

JustGotToKeepOnKeepingOn · 15/03/2023 07:29

Before anyone gets too excited I'd wait to see who will be eligible to receive this 'free' childcare... for a wild guess it won't be any of the people already barely make going to work financially worthwhile for their families... it's all about pushing people on UC back to work. Nothing more, nothing less.

R0ckets · 15/03/2023 07:30

Mamansparkles · 15/03/2023 07:26

There is so much pessimism on this thread. I'm not a Tory but this could be life changing for so many parents.
Why don't we wait and see the detail before wailing that it's terrible news and nurseries will all close - they might be funding better per hour (suggestions are that funding rates are increasing), or they might allow top up fees now.

It's not pessimism it's realism. It won't be funded properly anyone can see that and it will mean settings close which will have a detrimental effect on all those parents, providers and children.

The sector is already in crisis this isn't the magic fix it that people think it is.

mummyh2016 · 15/03/2023 07:35

@User8646382 no I'm not kidding and did you mean to patronise?
What's your answer then? Because from what you insinuate £62 a day isn't enough. What amount do you think parents should be paying for childcare?

crossstitchingnana · 15/03/2023 07:35

bellamountain · 14/03/2023 19:37

The Tories want everyone working, get those mums back to work and the old people out of retirement. Never mind the important early years in a child's development. Many nurseries are simply day care centres and I don't think the best environment for long days at a time. How about a scheme which pays one parent to be at home with their child?

I work, had no choice but to scrimp and save but I regret I'll never have those early years back. They're gone now.

Totally agree. The idea of paying parents to stay at home was floated a few years ago.

For me it's about choice, if being a SAHP is not for you then work. If you want to stay at home you should be able to.

I was a SAHM to our two and I loved it. Took advantage of the 15 hours free for 3-4 year olds (as it was back then), to get them used to a formal setting before school. One only went two mornings as that's all she could handle. Truth is, if we were young parents now I don't think we could afford for me to not work. That's not right.

Brokeintopieces · 15/03/2023 07:40

Mamansparkles · 15/03/2023 07:26

There is so much pessimism on this thread. I'm not a Tory but this could be life changing for so many parents.
Why don't we wait and see the detail before wailing that it's terrible news and nurseries will all close - they might be funding better per hour (suggestions are that funding rates are increasing), or they might allow top up fees now.

It’s realism as we have already had years of underfunding. The country is in a financial crisis, do you really think the government is going to suddenly produce enough money to not only extend the 30 hours to more ages but also fund those places properly? Of course they’re not! When we’ve had funding raise in the past it has literally been by a few pence which is a drop in the ocean. Not only that but settings are likely to be taxed more to fund all of this so they are in reality going to pay even more to support this magical ‘free childcare’

Hellohellomrt · 15/03/2023 07:41

Mamansparkles · 15/03/2023 07:26

There is so much pessimism on this thread. I'm not a Tory but this could be life changing for so many parents.
Why don't we wait and see the detail before wailing that it's terrible news and nurseries will all close - they might be funding better per hour (suggestions are that funding rates are increasing), or they might allow top up fees now.

Again as someone above has mentioned its not pessimism, it's realism. There are so many issues with providing 'free' funding to yet more children.

I am saying this as someone who has a 2 year old in the pre-school system and another baby due soon - so I would benefit from this, yet I'm terrified what it actually means in practice for those working in the sector!

Many people have posted on this thread who are working in nurseries and they have said why its detrimental yet people are choosing to ignore this.

I get so many emails a week from our pre-school asking for help with things such as plumbing issues, painting etc - all asking for goodwill (which is great as parents we want to help) but just shows they have little budget for the upkeep of the places we are sending OUR children too and expecting a high standard of care. By adding more children to the mix (and not paying the nursery adequately for their care) this just adds to the problem of the chronic underfunding in the sector.

As said above my partner worked in childcare for 10 plus years and we've recently been visiting nurseries to secure a place for our unborn baby - every setting we have visited upon finding out he's a qualified nursery practitioner have practically begged him to come back into the industry- they are crying out for staff!

They are so underpaid- my partner earns a considerable amount more where he is now, such a shame as he loved the job but the pay is appalling for the responsibilities etc.

People think this is a good idea need to speak to the staff in the nurseries.

nobodygirl2023 · 15/03/2023 07:42

Skinnermarink · 14/03/2023 18:50

I’ll only be ‘buzzing’ if they make up the shortfall for the nurseries who already struggle with the 30 free hours for three year olds. This could finish some childcare providers unless they agree to meet the deficit it will leave in nursery budgets.

I don't understand this. The nurseries still get paid surely? Only they'll get paid by govt/local authorities rather than directly from parents...

smellyflowers · 15/03/2023 07:44

nobodygirl2023 · 15/03/2023 07:42

I don't understand this. The nurseries still get paid surely? Only they'll get paid by govt/local authorities rather than directly from parents...

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At the moment the government decide how much they pay for those hours. And it isn't enough. So parents pay for "consumables" and food. And also the parents who do pay pay a higher price to help subsidise.

Sirzy · 15/03/2023 07:45

nobodygirl2023 · 15/03/2023 07:42

I don't understand this. The nurseries still get paid surely? Only they'll get paid by govt/local authorities rather than directly from parents...

Show quote history

But the amount they get for the funded places is a lot less than it costs to actually run the nursery, and they aren’t allowed to charge top ups to the hourly rate.

at the moment the places for under 3s help to fund some of that shortfall. Unless the amount paid per child by the goverment is significantly increased, or top ups to the hourly rate can be charged, then nurseries simply won’t be able to operate.

Lostmummy5 · 15/03/2023 07:49

Even if they will change staff ratios - it won't work.
I'm in London. Have friends on nursery waiting lists from August 2022. STILL WAITING. EVEN IF THEY ARE HAPPY TO PAY £72/day.
I had to quit my job in 2021 because there were staff shortages at our nursery almost every single day (when you leaving house at 7.30am and receiving an email 7.35 - "oh sorry, nursery is closed today").
We were on waiting lists for 7 months to get nursery place, only 2 days per week available!
These rich people have no bloody idea that people DON'T want to work at childcare for £10/h, especially if they will update staff ratios.

Mamansparkles · 15/03/2023 08:08

But we dont know anything yet! If after the announcement everyone wants to say how awful it is then fine (and I realise expectations of tory government are low, I'm a teacher!) But so far all that has been leaked is:

  • increase in funded hours to include 1 and 2 year olds
  • increase in the funding per hour (to an unknown amount)
The key is in the second point - what the funding will be - no one knows anything about whether it will work or not until that is announced.
Hellohellomrt · 15/03/2023 08:09

Lostmummy5 · 15/03/2023 07:49

Even if they will change staff ratios - it won't work.
I'm in London. Have friends on nursery waiting lists from August 2022. STILL WAITING. EVEN IF THEY ARE HAPPY TO PAY £72/day.
I had to quit my job in 2021 because there were staff shortages at our nursery almost every single day (when you leaving house at 7.30am and receiving an email 7.35 - "oh sorry, nursery is closed today").
We were on waiting lists for 7 months to get nursery place, only 2 days per week available!
These rich people have no bloody idea that people DON'T want to work at childcare for £10/h, especially if they will update staff ratios.

To all those who think 'what a great idea' this is the reality!

We were lucky to secure a space for my son in 2021 but trying to secure a place for my UNBORN baby to start Jan 24 has been near on impossible and I'm not in London either.

If the government do go ahead with what's planned good luck getting 'free' nursery.

Cheeseandhoney · 15/03/2023 08:16

Wonderful news. So many folks with infants in nursery now will be having a massive sigh of relief this morning and so many new parents will find their finances much more easier. Sure some work with the changes and the industry will need to expand, providing more jobs for those in child care settings but what a boon

surprised at rhe comments on the thread. I remember when the free hours kicked in for 3 and 4 years old and it was the exact same.

but it’s awesome news, now so many less families don’t face the situation of someone having to stay home as they can’t afford child care. Yes it will take a few months to right itself in some areas, but ultimately the uk has really stepped up ti help parents here.

Lostmummy5 · 15/03/2023 08:17

Hellohellomrt · 15/03/2023 08:09

To all those who think 'what a great idea' this is the reality!

We were lucky to secure a space for my son in 2021 but trying to secure a place for my UNBORN baby to start Jan 24 has been near on impossible and I'm not in London either.

If the government do go ahead with what's planned good luck getting 'free' nursery.

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I'm currently pregnant with second one and my child is already at all possible waiting lists too.
THERE ARE NO STAFF. Even if they will get more funding, it won't be better. They won't start to pay £15/h. It will be few pennies more which makes no difference at all if you have to look after 7 kids instead of 5 for example. I would better work as a cleaner with zero responsibility than at the nursery. Secondly, staff ratios are not good now, believe me. I have friends working at nurseries and they are all about to quit.

Treaclex69 · 15/03/2023 08:20

Mamansparkles · 15/03/2023 08:08

But we dont know anything yet! If after the announcement everyone wants to say how awful it is then fine (and I realise expectations of tory government are low, I'm a teacher!) But so far all that has been leaked is:

  • increase in funded hours to include 1 and 2 year olds
  • increase in the funding per hour (to an unknown amount)
The key is in the second point - what the funding will be - no one knows anything about whether it will work or not until that is announced.

Every year providers and parents have campaigned for proper funding with no avail just peanuts offered so please forgive us providers for not being optimistic as we've been let down time and time again over policies and funding. It's not just about the funding either for nurseries they will have the added issues of NMW rises, pensions the cost of living when you look beyond the underfunding it's easy to see why providers are not jumping for joy as an announcement of more funded hours will have increase demand on space that simply are not available.

Whinge · 15/03/2023 08:20

Wonderful news. So many folks with infants in nursery now will be having a massive sigh of relief this morning and so many new parents will find their finances much more easier. Sure some work with the changes and the industry will need to expand, providing more jobs for those in child care settings but what a boon

This is joke, right? Confused

Please tell me it's meant as a sarcastic post.

Cheeseandhoney · 15/03/2023 08:22

Whinge · 15/03/2023 08:20

Wonderful news. So many folks with infants in nursery now will be having a massive sigh of relief this morning and so many new parents will find their finances much more easier. Sure some work with the changes and the industry will need to expand, providing more jobs for those in child care settings but what a boon

This is joke, right? Confused

Please tell me it's meant as a sarcastic post.

No totally serious. Honestly it reads like some folks think removing the reason to stay home is heinous.

the industry will right itself. It’s fabulous news.

Brokeintopieces · 15/03/2023 08:37

Lostmummy5 · 15/03/2023 08:17

I'm currently pregnant with second one and my child is already at all possible waiting lists too.
THERE ARE NO STAFF. Even if they will get more funding, it won't be better. They won't start to pay £15/h. It will be few pennies more which makes no difference at all if you have to look after 7 kids instead of 5 for example. I would better work as a cleaner with zero responsibility than at the nursery. Secondly, staff ratios are not good now, believe me. I have friends working at nurseries and they are all about to quit.

Show quote history

Indeed, it’s when we are told funding rates will increase and then the local authority gleefully tells us we will see 5p more an hour 🤦‍♀️

turnthebiglightoff · 15/03/2023 08:42

It is absolutely wonderful news. I'm sorry, but childcare costs are crippling families and people are relying on UC to not work to stay home to avoid paying childcare costs which eat a whole persons salary.

We are not a society that can afford one parent to stay at home anymore. We haven't been for some time. This is very, very welcome news.

drpet49 · 15/03/2023 08:51

gogohmm · 14/03/2023 22:07

It is being reported that both parents (if two) or the parent will need to be earning over a certain threshold to qualify or be in full time employment. They aren't going to be paying if you don't work do no extra places needed, just help for existing. Devil will be in the details

Rightly so