Do (17) simply can't wake up in the mornings.

[BlastedPimples]

It's been going on for months.

He just can't get up in the mornings. I bring him coffee. Shake him awake. Set an alarm. He just sleeps through it. Open the blinds but the daylight doesn't wake him.

He has depression. He sees a psychologist. No medication. He refuses to take any. Fair enough.

He's missing 50%+ of his A level courses. Already he's had to drop down a year because he did so badly in his AS levels last year (E and two Us)

He's had blood tests. All normal.

He wants to get up and go to school but it's like he's a total zombie in the mornings and incapable. Perhaps insomnia? He says he doesn't sleep well.

I'm at a loss as to how to help anymore and I just leave him to it now.

He's nearly 18 and I can't do anything else. School will kick him out if he doesn't do well this time around as they require minimum C grade to progress to full A level.

He gets up around midday. Manages afternoon school sometimes. The gym. Rugby training. Is he just bone idle?

Is there anything else I'm missing that he could try? Or I should do?

8-10 hours is recommended for teenagers..

My DD was similar at that age. She has suspected ADHD and just couldn’t get to sleep earlier than about 1am. She started taking the Tesco diphenhydramine sleep aid tablets which enabled her to ‘switch off’ at about 10.30/11pm, and once she was on a decent sleep schedule she could get up earlier. She now does a job with a lot of physical activity and manages to sleep early without any aids. Does your DS get some outdoor physical exercise every day? Is he eating late? Drinking caffeinated drinks late?

He's probably so worried about school that he's physically avoiding going in.

Midnight is far too late. 10.30 is the right time. I go to bed at 10.30 and get up at 6.30. He needs to take melatonin 1 hour before bed.

He needs to want to do this though and suspect it symptomatic of a wider issue. I'd say no sport until he can go to school. Which is counterintuitive as exceise has many benefits, but also sound like he's taking the mick a bit!

I wasn't allowed to go to clubs if I wasn't well enough to school.

I do think you need to back to the GP.

My son couldn't get up for School, we had real battles with it. He is now working hasn't been late once even if he starts at 8 and didn't go to bed until 2 in the morning. I'm not sure what that proves but my son really didn't like School and was probably more anxious about it than he let on.

Midnight is far too late at his age. 10:30 at the latest. Turn phone and all screens off by 9:30. Follow good sleep hygiene. If this doesn't work, see the GP.

When you said he’s had blood tests what has he actually had? I ask because I was exactly like this as a teen and my Mum basically thought I was lazy and it caused endless problems but I was genuinely exhausted. I was diagnosed with Addison’s disease, lupus and thyroid issues aged 18. None of those tests - except perhaps the thyroid one - will have been done as standard. Addisons is very rare (1 in 100,000 people) but a morning cortisol test should still be done and a full autoimmune screening.

Op, some people need more sleep than standard 8hour.
Your son could be one of them.
I would recommend 22-22:30 bed time.
No caffineted drinks after 16.
And see if thats helps.

if I go to bed around midnight i have real difficulty getting up at 7.

Agree with his going to sleep is far too late. What is he doing during that time?

Teens and toddlers need similar amounts of sleep. I'd suggest he goes to bed around 10 and takes the melatonin at 930

Could be way out there, it's probably not this, but he's not been ill recently? When I was a teenager I had glandular fever and then a long time afterwards I had something called "post viral fatigue" that lasted months. Sometimes I just couldn't get put of bed, or my mum would have to drive me into school and I would fall asleep in the car or I would actually have to take time out of lessons to go and have a nap in the office. Definitely started as a genuine physical illness. I think after a while it actual became more mental than physical - like I had missed so much school that I was anxious about going in and being behind so my brain would just be like "stay asleep" ( there is a name for this as well that I can't remember - linked to anxiety and depression)
I think because the virus had gone it might not show in a blood test. Decades later I had something very similar after COVID. Not as bad and i could still function at work but was literally getting up moments before I had to leave and would need a nap when I finished. Again this was a virus so I figured similar thing.

7 hours sleep is not enough.

He's a growing and active boy.
Needs to go to bed earlier.

My 16 yo sleeps 22.30-07.30 on school days and will sleep in till lunchtime if we don't wake him up at weekends.

I think the thing is that you won't know if this is a bigger issue unless he sees what it's like when he gets more sleep. There would be very few people his age who could easily get up with so little sleep so start with sorting that out.

I know an adult who struggles a lot to wake up at normal hours due to this sleeping disorder:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder

I think it's an age thing. At that age you've got the world in your shoulders. You're supposed to be finding the path towards a career of some sort, through education or work, all whilst probably wanting to learn to drive, dealing with hormones and feelings, peer pressure and a general feeling of being stuck between a kid and a young adult.
I would've thought your DS is like I was, a bit reluctant to get up and deal with a life that's slowly becoming more mundane and less fun. Sadly that's kind of how life goes.

He needs to find a 'passion' of some sort, an interest, or something exciting to get to for.

Back to the GP and insist on more tests. B12 deficiency doesn’t always show up in blood plasma but they can still be deficient at a cellular level, for example, and need injections.

Ds is like this just now and is autistic with adhd. So the delayed sleep phase thing applies. And he finds it hard to wind down.

They have.

Gym, melatonin and midnight..... There's your answer!!! If he needs the melatonin (has he tried other naturalish methods I. E it bath, nytol. Etc) then he needs to be going to bed around 10pm I'd say.

If there's nothing medical, he can reset his sleep mode, sleep training for adults basically. Lots of info online.

My DS is a bit younger and doesn't have MH issues but he does have sleep issues and used to have massive trouble both getting to sleep and waking up. He takes 2.5mg melatonin at 8pm on a school night and gets into bed at 9. Early but he needs it to be able to get up at 6.45 and not be a zombie. I would suggest he sticks with the melatonin as a regular routine and gets in bed earlier.

Huge brain and body growth, boys puberty lasts till 21. He needs a lot more sleep. Confusing as 10-14yr olds need less sleep than 15-19 Yr olds.

He's going to bed way too late. I'd maybe talk to him about going to bed at 10 to 10:30- it will be difficult to drop off at first if he's used to midnight but he could try going 15 minutes earlier each night until he's getting to bed at a more suitable time.

If a few weeks of more sleep doesn't improve things then it may be worth going back to the GP. I have an autoimmune disease and can sleep through almost anything in the morning when I'm going through a bad phase, my 4 year old was apparently in our bad chatting loudly to DH this morning and I was completely unaware. I'll wake up if there's noise in the night but I'm very deeply asleep in the mornings.

Does he have a Fitbit? That would show exactly how he sleeps.

I can't have caffeinated drinks after noon tbh.

He’s sleeping 12 hours a day! So he needs to go to bed way earlier. No screen time before bed. No rugby or gym till he starts going to school. I know exercise helps you to sleep but it’s clearly not working in his case and if it’s his passion I’m sure he’ll work out a way.