Cats banned from going outside in Australia, could it happen here?

[JamBiscuitBun]

I'm interested to hear thoughts on this. Article here I can't ever see it working in the UK. I also remember Australian farmers having apocalyptic mice problems on some of their farms, so I'm not sure how this fits in with that. Though there are many people who'd love to never have the neighbour's cat pooing in their garden again. What d'you think?

To be fair, I don't think people wanting cats kept in doors/garden cages are wanting this out of concern for the welfare of the cat...

As I said, it really is a live and let live situation. I'm not a big dog lover, but I appreciate other people love them and have them as a companion/gives them joy so I tolerate the nuisances they bring to my life because I accept not everything in the world around me is about me/my likes and wants.

When you let your cat out, there's going to be certain dangers, but that's part of life, and you assess the risks accordingly. For instance, I wouldn't buy/rent a property by a busy main road if I was going to have a cat because the risk is too high. I live in a fairly quiet semi rural area, so the risk is reduced, and I'm happy to let the cat roam. I'd also always make sure my cat was neutered. My cat has had ticks before, but considering I got a tick on myself from when I was laying in my own garden, the risk is there right on my doorstep, so a cat could pick up a tick whether it's trapped in it's own garden or roaming a field.

You don't have to be vegan to worry about birds, but unfortunately, nature kills nature across all animals and birds, and the biggest threat to nature is humans. So it is a bit hypocritical to preach so loudly about the welfare of birds, then no doubt tuck into a chicken dinner later on. During covid, when humans were locked up, there was a big shift in nature, and I'm sure all the lovely wildlife breathed a sigh of relief!

Cats are not the issue here.

@CandleInTheStorm

You don't have to be vegan to worry about birds, but unfortunately, nature kills nature across all animals and birds, and the biggest threat to nature is humans. So it is a bit hypocritical to preach so loudly about the welfare of birds, then no doubt tuck into a chicken dinner later on. During covid, when humans were locked up, there was a big shift in nature, and I'm sure all the lovely wildlife breathed a sigh of relief!

This doesn't apply in Australia, where cats present a danger to the biodiversity of birds and small mammals. We have so many species that are endangered or on the verge of extinction.

This

As we clearly have a lot of bird lovers here can I take a moment to remind everyons today to put a bit of food out? Nuts, cheese, seeds, oats, sweetcorn, peas - whatever you have in - and a bowl of water. Cold will kill a lot more today than cats will!

I'm pointing out the obvious here but if no one claimed it the chances are that it was not owned. A lot of the problems bring listed on here - unneutered cats, kittens getting killed - don't sound like problems caused by owned cats who are allowed out but by feral cat colonies. And that's a different problem.

This doesn't apply in Australia, where cats present a danger to the biodiversity of birds and small mammals. We have so many species that are endangered or on the verge of extinction.

This thread is not about Australia, it’s about the UK. I don’t know why people in Australia or the US are trying to tell us in the UK, to keep our cats indoors when it’s the norm here (except for city dwellers in flats) to let cats outdoors if they want? Our wildlife is very different from Australia!

Our county council closed down 2 secondary schools round here over 30 years ago. For 20 years, there were ructions every year, because there weren’t enough secondary school places for the children. Eventually they sold off the site of one of the defunct schools for house building at a massive profit; then compulsorily purchased a farmer’s field in the green belt to build a new school - the best bird nesting site in the county! All the birdwatchers wrote and complained, to no avail!

If those species are in danger of being extinct, why not put them in enclosed spaces where they can't get out?

Its easier to say 'I don't understand how ecosystems work'.

My cats would be happy with that. They are indoor due to their breed. And I live by a busy road. My parents cat would not be happy with that at all.

What a ridiculous suggestion.

Do you realistically see armies of people combing through millions of square miles seeking out endangered species to gather into a zoo as an alternative to people simply keeping their invasive species pets indoors?

Utterly gobsmacking.

Neolithic farmers had cats apparently to keep down pests. So they're hardly a new issue. 🤔

How many millions of cats currently roam the UK and kill birds?

Can you say with your hand on your heart that all the birds killed by the millions of cats out there are the weakest birds?

This strange 'weakest birds' idea promotes the notion that cats are doing birds a favour by speeding up their evolution, and you are significantly overegging it.

Millions of birds are killed in the UK by cats every year. What is wrong with birds, that there are so many of them who are weak and sick?

www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/gardening-for-wildlife/animal-deterrents/cats-and-garden-birds/are-cats-causing-bird-declines/
Cats pose a significant risk to birds, both in important garden habitats and wild areas near houses.
Ground nesting birds are particularly endangered.
Figures for birds and other prey killed are estimates - injured prey get away and die, parent birds when killed leave uncounted nestlings to die, birds are ingested, etc. Actual numbers killed are therefore higher.

Millions of birds needlessly killed is a big problem.

They kept them to eat mice and rats who would otherwise eat stored grain, dried fruits, etc.

Actually, this thread specifically referenced Australia. Take a look at the thread title.

The assertion that the UK has nothing to learn from other places and nothing in common with experiences of wildlife abroad, or the experience of cats for that matter, is laughably parochial.

Your wildlife is subject to exactly the same rules of behaviour and exactly the same danger of extinction as wildlife everywhere else is. The rules of nature apply globally.

If you let a top predator species loose in any given area, it will eventually kill off or critically endanger all the prey living there. If you keep on adding top predators, the rate of killing will increase. This applies to all top predators and all prey animals in all environments.

@CandleInTheStorm

Cats are not the issue here.

Humans are not hunting and killing 27+ million British birds every year.

Cats absolutely are the issue.

There will be 27 million fewer birds in the UK by December of this year, thanks to cats.

And how many are born?

Humans are killing millions of animals and birds every day. Or is it only the wild ones that matter?

How many foxes are there?

Twelve million, as with cats?

Or perhaps far fewer, thus posing far less danger to populations of other native species.

Proportionality is important here.

The point was that cats are just as wild by nature as these other wildlife, but it's humans who have decided to keep them as pets. So why is it ok to lock one up out of their natural living habits and not the other?

There will be 27 million fewer birds in the UK by December of this year, thanks to cats

I have no idea where that stat comes from. But birds are far more endangered by human activity than by cats. And small birds and their eggs get eaten and attacked by larger birds. And other animals such as squirrels.

Human activity is the issue.

As for ground-nesting birds, does that mean everyone will keep their dogs on short leads? Nope, Thought not.

My cat would be quite happy with this. She’s not a fan of the great outdoors, although she does like to sit at the back door and look at the garden.

Blue tits lay up to 16 eggs per clutch. Most usually it's 8-12 eggs. They can lay two clutches a year. Fond as I am of them they can also be a bit of a menace. They're fiercely possessive of nest boxes and will attack birds in them if someone else got there first. So will great tits which average 8.5 eggs per clutch. Great tits will attack birds in nest boxes, including the rather more endangered pied flycatcher and eat their brains - yes, seriously.

Tits are some of the birds most likely to be brought in by cats and frankly if some things didn't predate on them, considering how fast they multiply, we would likely be overrun and have to consider them a serious problem. Which would be a shame cos they're cute.

You're not supposed to give these facts. Cats are the absolute problem for bird and mammal distinction of all time, remember...

Probably also not meant to point out that two of the biggest bird killers aren't cats but windows (yes really - they beat out everything else, I have snowflakes on mine year round now) and disease, even before bird flu (clean your bird feeders regularly! with bleach!)

Blue tits are one of the most, if not the most, cat predated species and yet their numbers still keep going up - mostly I suspect because they're cute and well adapted to human made feeders. Sad as it is when something small and cute dies we really don't need many more of them than we already have.

And just cos I'm awake and feel like spewing bird facts at people.

This is a willow tit (easily mistaken for the marsh tit which it is very similar to). It is endangered in the UK, and because it is endangered people have done studies on what is causing issues.

They're not as prolific as blue tits, laying four to eight eggs per nest, but they are pretty good at successfully raising chicks if left alone. That bit is key though - 40% of nest failures? Eviction by blue tit who stole the site. And whilst predation was indeed the next biggest issue it wasn't a cat problem but woodpeckers - they hammer into the nest then steal the chicks.

Blue tits and great tits may start becoming an increasingly big problem. Why? Global warming (isn't it always). If it gets warmer earlier in the year then nesting birds start earlier. That means they're more likely to go for a second round of eggs so there's more competition for the nesting boxes.

Thread title says, cats in Australia banned from going outside. Australians are coming in to say, not the whole of Australia, not banned from going outside, and the rule that actually is in place, in some limited areas, has some logic behind it.

Both cats and wildlife can benefit if cats are encouraged to stay on their owners’ property.

Why are so many people on this thread so upset, especially when it’s pointed out that the thread is based on two false premises?