Cats banned from going outside in Australia, could it happen here?

[JamBiscuitBun]

I'm interested to hear thoughts on this. Article here I can't ever see it working in the UK. I also remember Australian farmers having apocalyptic mice problems on some of their farms, so I'm not sure how this fits in with that. Though there are many people who'd love to never have the neighbour's cat pooing in their garden again. What d'you think?

Dogs are also outside animals but don't have the right to roam like cats because they can be very dangerous. You only have to read the threads on here about dogs running up to/jumping up at people, biting, being aggressive towards other dogs and people. That's why they don't have the right to roam because they are essentially a very dangerous animal who could easily kill in a lot of circumstances, especially if left to their own devices.

Cats, whilst they have the odd hissy fit with another cat here and there, they are largely happy to be left alone.

This.

Cats are wild animals who like to come indoors sometimes. Keeping them indoors 24/7 is very cruel, like keeping all birds in cages.

We have two indoor cats - they actively decided never to go outside and we've had them since 9 weeks. I'm not sure if it's because there was a husky next door and it spooked them or if they're just lazy but they're very happy indoors, play with each other etc.

Our last cat had to be an indoor cat due to health reasons and did escape every now and then but only ever went as far as the garden. I was still too worried to let her roam though as she couldn't be vaccinated.

@takealettermsjones

Sorry haven't RTFT, but why is "but they kill birds" always given as a reason to get rid of/restrict cats?

In this particular case, cats are not native to the country. The wildlife is particularly vulnerable to predators they are not intrinsically familiar with. Australia is home is unique species of birds and mammals that are vulnerable, threatened, close to extinction or already extinct.

Polar bears kill fish and nobody suggests culling the polar bears.

That is natural behaviour, in their native environment, and the fish are their normal food in that particular ecosystem.

*Birds kill worms, and we need worms.
*
See the above. I hope you can see the clear difference between a native species and an invasive one (as cuddly as it is.)

Not out - roosting in trees. Which cats can climb. Birds are hugely vulnerable after dark, as most day species can't see to fly after dark.

We don’t have to keep our cats inside. Most people won’t tolerate cats roaming. If you have an outdoor cat in Australia it’s likely to be trapped and dumped or taken to the council where the owner will get finned.

Hopefully 🙏

I honestly don’t find birds on the doorstep that often but I can’t remember ever waking up to one. I think most cats are attracted to hunt by rustling/movement rather than birds sleeping in trees so nocturnal rodents are more likely.

Cats not bringing birds home DOES NOT mean that they are not killing them

www.sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2020/05/15/lock-up-your-pet-cat-its-a-killing-machine.html

Same here. Cats have been domesticated for thousands of years. They can lead perfectly happy indoor lives.

Wow - you've had a conversation with a cat. What a miracle!

This this this!

what an utterly ignorant and stupid statement. We have had trackers on our cats for 2 years now and not once have they either killed cats or so little as sh*t in someone else's garden. People like yourself are highly dangerous towards animals.

Cata are pretty much all indoor pets where I live (US). There's no law about it, but people choose to have them indoors for their own safety.

Roads are busy here, and we have a lot of squirrels and rabbits, so there are a lot of hawks, too. We also have possums and raccoons, which carry rabies, and a good few other wild mammals ranging from small to medium size - the odd coyote, foxes, voles... I would imagine that in Australia, snakes account for quite a few beloved pets, and then there are insects that sting. Plus, of course, there are the usual parasites they can pick up from prey and from drinking water outdoors both in the US and Oz.

Indoor cats live long and happy lives. Mine is currently curled up on my lap, purring.

@marblemad

It's an established fact that cats have decimated wild bird populations in the UK and elsewhere.

@marblemad

what an utterly ignorant and stupid statement. We have had trackers on our cats for 2 years now and not once have they either killed cats or so little as sht in someone else's garden. People like yourself are highly dangerous towards animals.*

Well, okay, if you'd like to think they haven't as much as relieved themselves elsewhere - that's perhaps a tad naive. But this thread is about Australia, where they absolutely do pose a threat to native species - and likewise, the native species (like snakes) can pose a threat to them. Cats are an invasive species in Australia as they are not native. I keep my own cat indoors as we have snakes in our yard as well as beautiful parrots that I don't want to be scared off or killed.

The argument for outdoor cats is of course an argument based on the very middle class conceit that everyone lives in a house with garden or at least access straight out to the outdoors.

I agree. Any cat I've known would hate to be trapped inside all the time, it's cruel. Far more issues are caused by humans than cats. Songbirds will just have to take their chances, like other creatures do.

That long Meh ("meh-owwww") sound you hear is millions of American cats wondering what the heck you're going on about.

So humans can choose to keep cats (nobody is forcing them to do this), they can ascribe feelings to them based on little or no evidence, and, ignoring studies showing that roaming pet cats are a major threat to bird populations, let them loose to do their thing and songbirds just have to deal with it.

But that's not cruel to the songbirds, or selfish, or bonkers...

Here's the unpopular part.... I absolutely cannot understand (and I include my younger self in this) why anyone would have a pet cat (that they presumably love) and let it outside (other than in a garden with an enclosed run). Would those of you with a toddler feed it breakfast, then take it to the door at 9am, let it out and say, "Have fun - I'll call you for your tea later" and just shut the door? Of course you wouldn't! (If you would, this is an entirely different conversation!) I truly, honestly, simply don't get it.

Well, I don't live in the UK, but here we have things called cat doors, or in some cases, things called windows, which mean the cats can please themselves as to whether they are inside or outside. Pretty sure you do have them in the UK also btw.

I'm guessing you don't know much about cats!

Incidentally, since when did songbirds become the number one priority in the world? Are other creatures which are victims of predators not worthy of concern? Birds take and kill the young of other birds - is that okay?

There are many, many, birds where I live (not the UK), and also many, many cats so they can't be having that much of an effect.

What studies would those be?

As it turns out, I know a lot about cats.

I can't remember a time my family didn't have a cat as a child, and I've had cats as pets for 27 years since leaving home. My current cat is an indoors cat.

You otoh seem to know diddly squat about birds. They don't generally take and kill the young of other birds for starters. Yes, raptors will do that, but they are uncommon. The rest are not carnivorous, or they focus on bugs and worms, not the young of other birds. Cats, like raptors, are carnivores and wreak havoc on bird populations.

There's a lot of truly gobsmacking ignorance on this thread when it comes to cats, based in parochialism - the 'reasoning' goes that cats are allowed to roam freely in the UK, so therefore letting them roam Is absolutely and unquestionably the best thing a cat owner could do for a cat. Yet millions and millions of cats live long and healthy and happy lives in apartments all over the world (and even in the UK, where quite a few flat dwellers own indoor cats). Cats live in apartments in Japan, China, Russia, all over Europe, Australia, and North and South America... There are probably more indoor cats in New York City than the entire UK.

www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/aug/14/cats-kill-birds-wildlife-keep-indoors

An article synthesizing recent research on the effect of cats' roaming on wildlife, and various arguments for and against letting your cat roam.

Lots have said that they can live indoors. I have an indoor cat who chooses herself to remain indoors. I also have a cat who will not under any circumstance stop in for more than a good nap. Then I have another 2 cats in-between.

For the ones who are used to going out, it would be cruel to keep them in.