'Gentiles'

[Dilbertian]

Today I was chatting with a small group of people and we got onto the subject of how different faiths view various things. I was the only Jewish person in the group. One of the others kept referring to himself, and to non-Jewish people in general, as 'a gentile'/'gentiles', but only within the context of Jewish ways, not of any other faith's ways.

It made me a bit uncomfortable. I would never use that expression. I would say non- or not Jewish, just as I would say non- or not Muslim. I don't think 'gentile' is offensive, so I'm not sure why I'm bothered by it.

Would you use 'gentile' to refer to non-Jews? Would you use it to refer to people who are not of any other religion?

It's not a word I hear outside of biblical context. I don't find it offensive.

@VeniVidiWeeWee Agreed. I would not refer to non-Jews as goyim (which is the plural. Goy is singular.) The word is not inherently derogatory, but has been used as othering. "Yid" however, is a real slur and shouldn't be used at all.

How funny, I’m an American Jew too and it doesn’t sound weird to me at all. The more time I spend traveling and meeting different people at home and abroad the more I realize that so many of these things we assume are common to a particular region or ethnicity are really just variations between individual families or social groups.

The word gentile feels old-fashioned and I don’t routinely use it but I would never think of it as offensive in any way.

there are lots of words that mean "not something" - Gorga, country, shicksa, etc - they are mostly used by people who are that something, to talk about people who are not

I'd lift an eyebrow at 'There are now three jews on the council.'

I'd associate it with a negative follow on comment. Same with 'There are three gays on the council'.

The polite phrasing would be 'we are a diverse council with representative from the gay/jewish community'.

I'd love to say discrimination was so far in the past it doesn't matter anymore but... it's not.

Anyway, back to Gentiles!
I don't think I knew that about 'the nations', so thank you.

I don't know some of the Yiddish words mentioned either! Feeling ignorant this morning.

I'm bog standard working class C of E by birth, and I'm very familiar with the word Gentile and it's context.

But I'm 64. I've heard it used all over, on news, in print, all my life.

Perhaps it's not used so commonly in later years so youngsters aren't familiar with it?

I fundamentally disagree. Yid is mine to use. Yid is the word for Jew in the lingua franca of Eastern European Jews. That language is Yiddish - quite literally, Jewish.

In the words of a certain group of gentiles (as that does appear to be an acceptable word), I'm a Yid, a Hebe, a Hook-Nose. I'm a Red Sea Pedestrian and proud of it!

I didn't think 'gentile' was an offensive word, but always ready to be educated if it is. In any event, I wouldn't use it - for any religion, if talking about non-members, I'd say 'non-Jews' 'non-Muslims' 'non-Christians' etc. Probably only in the context of not doing something very specific to that faith, rather than any wider area of belief or behaviour. I am an agnostic.

@Dilbertian I understand what you are saying, but I would never use that word, or any of those words. I've never heard that last one! So, Jew is good enough for me. I don't feel I am reclaiming or diluting slurs by using them myself.

The word “schtum” was used in a headline in the Times this morning, it’s a very well used word in the UK - there are loads of words like this that are commonly used, that people wouldn’t know were Yiddish. I grew up in quite a Jewish area of London and had many Jewish friends; I probably use lots of Yiddish words without even realising.

As a Gentile I've never heard it being used as a term of offence.

But I've always been given to understand "Yid" or "Kike" to be offensive racist slurs, much like N or P**

''@coconotgrove

Am always a little bemused when non-Jews use Yiddish words too.''

Really?

Surely it is the same thing as when English people use certain latin phrases or French words because they have become part of our language.

In places like New York because there is a long-standing largeJewish community that has influenced everyday language for everyone else words like chutzpah, klutz, nosh, schlep are commonly used words by non-jews.

Agree with this

Kike and Hebe are slurs, because they were deliberately imposed upon us as derogatory. Yid, on the other hand, was taken from us. It is a word used by a substantial group of Jews to describe themselves, that was then imposed upon all Jews as derogatory.

Ich bin a Yid.

Gentile isn’t remotely offensive. Don’t be daft. I watched an episode of Fleischman Is In Trouble last night that used it in conversation.

@coconotgrove There are many, many Yiddish words used in English. Michael Rosen is an enthusiastic proponent of them on Twitter and has some interesting threads about them.

Don’t some Mormons call non members gentiles too?

Yes, I know this about Yiddish words, grew up with Yiddish-speaking grandparents, follow Michael Rosen on Twitter and have devoured Leo Rosten's New Joys of Yiddish.

But it still irks when the pronunciation is used incorrect and the words used incorrectly.

And, to be more specific, it's something I have noticed when faced with antisemites, they pepper their language with Yiddish in a bid to make what they're saying more acceptable, like it's a joke, when it is not. I find that incredibly offensive.

Am less prickly about Yiddish words in everyday life when I'm in New York and Los Angeles as it's so much more absorbed into the language and feels more natural. Indeed, Broadway and Hollywood would not be half of what it is without its foundations of Yiddish music hall. However, here, in London, even in 2023, it just does not feel natural to me unless I am in specific areas.

This is just my personal feelings. Obviously I do not police language, nor do I want to as language is a living, breathing growing thing, and all languages borrow from each other. Yiddish is wonderful, so expressive and am not surprised that some words have become part of our every day language.

I really don't want to derail this thread, and have nothing more to add on this.

There is a word that means 'non Jewish' and it is gentile.

To my knowledge there isn't a word that means non Muslim and so we say 'non Muslim'.

Maybe it's as simple as that?

I dont find gentile offensive, im not Jewish

As others have said, I'd use it in the context of talking about the Bible (particularly the New Testament). I don't think I'd use it in any other context, though I wouldn't be offended by it being used to describe me either.

kafir