Trouble with my 9 year old DD… please help :(

[KiaOraa]

My 9 year old is generally a good kid, but has her moments as they all do. Lately though, she’s been becoming more challenging, doing things she knows she’s not allowed to do. Nothing incredibly serious, just quite trivial rule breaking, but it’s really affecting my trust in her. I’ve explained in a calm way that I can’t trust her if she breaks my rules. She seems to listen and understand but then the rule breaking continues. I don’t let her play out in the street, and friends of hers do, but how can I trust her if she always breaks rules and lies to me?

After school today, she asked if she could have a hot crossed bun. DH bought some chocolate and salted caramel ones for a treat. There were 2 eaten which was strange as the packet was full last night. Not that I generally monitor the food, but that meant there wasn’t enough for one each. I asked DD if she’d had one, and eventually she told me that she had taken one and put it in her school snack box. For reference, school ask us to provide a small snack for school. Today I gave her melon and a madeleine.

This has really frustrated me because only a week ago, she took something from the kitchen for school snack as opposed to the snack I had provided her, and it contained nuts. Her school is nut free. She wasn’t caught with it at school but I dread to think about some child having a severe reaction because of her doing this. I had a serious discussion with her about this and how irresponsible it was and what harm she could have caused. She was very sorry at the time. I explained explicitly that she takes the snack I give her, but obviously today she sneaked something out of the kitchen again.

I always make sure that her snack is something that she likes, but I don’t give her anything containing chocolate, which is what she wants me to give her.

Tonight I got a bit fed up and spoke to her in a stern voice, telling her that she is not to take anything other than the snack I give her. She went absolutely crazy, screaming at me and frightening her sister. I told her to go out of the room and I took her with me to the hall. She continued to shout so I said she needed to stay out there and have a think about how she speaks to me. She was still shouting at me and I said, you need to stop shouting by the time I count to 5… at this point she opened the door, slamming it open and it’s hit me on the head.

Im absolutely heart broken. Where am I going wrong? What am I doing wrong? She is just lying and being deceitful all the time at the moment.

I have very few rules, but I do expect honesty. What do I do? 😢

Bump

Kids lie. Pick your battles, why can't she have a say in what she has for her snack?

She's 9. Hormones. Probably also friendship issues - especially if she's taking it because she wants to fit in as that's what the others are having.
DD was just 10 when she also started rebelling about the snacks I prepared for her. I've ended up buying a selection of things and she chooses her own every day. It's not worth fighting over.

Could she be hungry? I have a child the same age and noticed a huge change in eating patterns over the past 6 months. Less snacks but bigger meals. Could you give her more for breakfast? Did you ask her why she took it? I parent from a viewpoint that every behaviour is communication and if it is was my child I would start asking them about food, likes and dislikes and encourage her to pick her own snack. It’s not ok to hurt you or shout at you and she should apologise.

@RedHelenB ive let her have a say in her snacks. The only boundary on it is no chocolate, which is what school have told us.

@PartyWhere that might work. Thanks. Although, todays snacks were two of her favourite foods, so I don’t think that’s the issue. I think she just wants the things I’ve told her she can’t have. If that makes sense.

I think discuss what she wants for snack. Ask her what her friends have. If she’s sitting there with melon and a madeleine while her friends have chocolate, I can understand why she’s unhappy.

Why don’t you let her play out in the street?

You could ask school to speak to her as she’s breaking their rules.

@121Sarah121 i have asked her why and her reason is that the other kids are given things like that. But I actually work at the school (not in the same part though). I can’t really break the rules if I work there. I know some kids get just a piece of fruit. I always give fruit and something a bit more treat like, a biscuit or little sponge, but just nothing chocolate.

Could the issue be (I'm assuming) you cut the melon into small pieces and someone is taking the piss because "mummy has to cut up her food for her!"? Would she be happier with a whole piece of fruit like an apple or orange?

Surely a chocolate and salted caramel hot cross bun is different to a bar of chocolate, in terms of what's acceptable to the school?

Really nothing you have written here sounds worrying, just normal tween stuff (is she near 10?). You come across as very strict with her, i'm not sure taking a snack warranted such a harsh comedown. You are going to need to start stepping back on minor things like snacks. And can you compromise on the playing out in the street?

In general you are reaching the end of the stage of parenting where your word is final and that's that and your child will accept it. It'll be a long few years for your family if you persist with that approach as she reaches puberty and adolescence. Parenting tweens and teens is more about compromise and gradually increasing responsibility (with conditions and clear boundaries of course). This sounds like a good time to start talking to her about what choice and responsibility. For example, you could let her choose her snack provided it meets school rules? And let her prepare it?

It’s definitely not a case of someone taking the piss out of her. I’d completely understand that and have really open communication with her and so I’m certain nothing like that is happening.

Having just asked her again, she said her snack is probably one of the best in the class. It’s just that others occasionally get something chocolatey.

As I said, this is part of a wider issue of her becoming increasingly deceitful to me. She’s a terrible liar though so I can tell instantly when she’s hiding something.

Ive explained that the goal is, as she gets older, I can give her more and more trust as she gets more grown up & responsible. I’ve explained that, by lying, this really creates issues for me, because I can’t give her the trust I want to. The little lies are really constant at the moment 😒

She's testing you. Mine does it still too to some extent. We try to sanction the lying more harshly than we sanction what she was lying about.

We also have gone for a "thank you for telling me you broke that. As you were honest and told us about it, you will only get a two day tv ban instead of 4 days." attitude. Trying to make them see it pays to be honest about stuff.

Thanks @asplashofmilk. I really appreciate the advice. I’m obviously new to this stage and finding it hard to navigate.

I have told DD I want to allow her to play out but, she needs to be responsible for me to allow her. Her best friend that lives on the street and her are so silly when they are together. I don’t mind because they do have lots of fun together, but just the other day, DD walked straight out into the road whilst messing about with her friend (who was at the other side) and would have been hit by a car if I hadn’t have pulled her back. That, coupled with the lying… I can’t take the risk of her playing out without my supervision yet.

@PartyWhere glad to hear it’s fairly normal at this age. I’ve been trying to do the same. I’ve told her she needs to be honest with me. It’s the most important thing to me as a parent. I know I sound strict, but I really don’t want to be strict. The playing out would be a different story if I thought she was sensible enough. The snacks, I’m happy with her choosing and I’ve asked for her input and give her things I know she loves. She just knew I would say no to the hot crossed buns and that’s why she took it.

Also, a big issue today is the way she’s behaved afterwards. I’ve now got a big lump on my head from the door slamming. I understand that emotions can run high and she didn’t intend on hurting me, but the screaming was on another level. It’s not okay.

My autistic DD used to take sugary food at that kind of age because of poor impulse control. She's pretty good now at 12 but we did have to lock things away because there was quite a lot going missing and wrappers etc in her room. It definitely coincided with puberty and growth spurts too.
I'd guess the extreme anger afterwards is because of shame.

Not having a go, but you sound quite rigid in your application of rules. If dealing with snacks, aged 9, is this fraught, I don't know how you're going to navigate bigger issues in the teenage years. Sometimes its ok to be a bit flexible. I would have thought the school's chocolate ban, as a pp pointed out, is more likely aimed at discouraging chocolate bars, than banning a tiny bit of chocolate as an ingredient in a hot X bun! The fact that you work at the school seems to mean that your dd is given no leeway, for fear of it reflecting badly on you. No chocolate bars or nuts, fair enough, but I'd pick your battles. If your rules are numerous, and as petty as this one, Your dd is going to be more inclined to flout them and lie about it, because that's what kids tend to do.

Why is the school demonising chocolate? What a strange approach that they can have cakes and biscuits but no chocolate. All are equally high energy/ sugary snacks.

As a parent I'd be questioning that policy tbh.

Obviously it also only makes chocolate more desirable to the children and could contribute to them having an unhealthy relationship with it as they get older.

Pick your battles. The main issue here is that she did something that physically hurt you. Has she apologised for that?

Give her some control then she will not need to go behind your back. She is beginning to grow up and establish her own personality. Do not quash it; nurture it gently.

If she wants to change her snack can't she just ask?

Then with the nuts you would have said no & why for example.

Do you ask her in the morning what she would like or just choose for her?

To be honest, I do give DD the occasional chocolate chip brioche etc. Just not chocolate bars, chocolate cake or anything really chocolatey. The school actually say “a healthy snack - no crisps, cakes or chocolate”, and it’s reiterated regularly to parents. So it is quite strict and like I said, many other children have simply a piece of fruit for snack. She’s definitely not hard done by. I’d have given her a 1/2 a plain hot crossed bun and some fruit for snack. I wouldn’t have given her the caramel one because it was oozing with caramel and very sticky, so wouldn’t be practical for playtime. Also, I’ve had trouble with her not eating her school dinners so I wouldn’t have given her the full bun as she’s doesn’t eat much and would happily skip lunch after that. I’m really not that strict, but appreciate it may be coming across differently here.

I agree with others, you’re coming across as quite strict and controlling. I know it’s coming from a good place but while a younger child will accept it without question, a pre-teen will begin to rebel.

You are who you were 5 years ago but your DD is not. She is a different person and will change even more. You have to change how you relate to this new person. You have to give her more and more freedom to choose what she wants to do, frightening and heartbreaking though it often is.

Choose your battles. Say Yes to everything that is not dangerous or unhealthy. Let her wear what she wants, eat what she wants (just keep healthy stuff in the house), have a messy bedroom, etc. So that you are not always saying No, always arguing and in conflict.

And so that when you do have a hard rule (eg do homework, road safety, brush teeth, don’t go with anyone unless she has told you) she will respect it.

Also tell her a hundred times a day that you love her dearly.