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Utterly disastrous teacher trainee applications for next year

125 replies

noblegiraffe · 27/02/2023 21:34

Analysis on twitter of the current state of play of teacher training applications for September shows that the figures for secondary have barely changed from last year when the government only reached 59% of its target for secondary recruitment. This is despite massive increases in bursaries.

Really worryingly, primary teaching applicants are down 15% on last year.

twitter.com/jackworthnfer/status/1630150284683911171?s=61&t=oXSFDbmiMqnRpz_ijYIZlQ

We do not have anywhere near enough teachers. Teacher trainee numbers for last September (who schools are currently hiring to fill vacancies in September) were awful. Even school who previously didn't struggle to hire many well find themselves without teachers in September. That the year after is looking similar is unthinkable.

Classes are having different supply teachers each week. Unqualified teachers. TAs are teaching classes in primary school. A recent thread on here had classes logging into computers and watching videos of lessons instead of having lessons. Exam classes are having to teach themselves due to no teacher or no specialist teacher.

And what has the government done? Just announced another massive pay cut for teachers next year, scrapped the fee-funded schools-based training route and massively reduced the number of accredited teacher training providers for September 2024.

What. The. Hell?

Utterly disastrous teacher trainee applications for next year
Utterly disastrous teacher trainee applications for next year
OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 28/02/2023 00:25

I think there is nothing that the government can now to do significantly reduce workload (and thus entice more people into the profession) that doesn't require significantly more staff in schools (who we can't recruit because things are so bad) OR kids being in school for less time.

Smaller class sizes? More PPA? More teaching assistants and SEN support?

It can't happen. With fewer and fewer teachers we're getting larger class sizes, PPA that we do have eaten up with propping up the classes that don't have teachers before we even get onto our own work and we can't hire TAs because they can earn more in a supermarket.

Less time in school for kids it has to be then. Stick them in front of a computer in front of Oak Academy which is the only thing that the government appears to have put money into in education.

OP posts:
IHeartKingThistle · 28/02/2023 00:30

As a HoD of a core subject, the staffing crisis is frightening.

I bloody love this job but there is so much wrong right now.

ukgone2pot · 28/02/2023 01:53

I'm a qualified teacher (primary) but never went into it after my course. I was so drained with the amount of BS during my placements, I knew I would never want to teach in the UK. On the flip side, I've done quite a bit of online teaching which has been an enjoyable experience and tutoring on the side you can make you good money.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Meredusoleil · 28/02/2023 01:54

I reckon eventually, schools will have to start hiring OTT directly from abroad.

My last school already had to resort to this. We had one American and one South African recruited from their home countries. Although neither of them are still there AFAIK!

clopper · 28/02/2023 03:06

Get rid of ofsted. Save millions and millions of pounds. Reduce stress and all the extra work ‘getting ready for ofsted’. Cut down the new ridiculous expectations on mentors and Newly qualified teachers and go back to the one year probation year. Do one exam board for national qualifications, from a board of experts based in this country.

Stop basing children’s gcse results on a test that they did at 10… children's circumstances change and they develop at different rates. Stop trying to make all schools like a market place. In the old days teachers willingly helped each other between schools without charging.

Stop making teachers and schools become pseudo social workers focusing on mental health… we are not qualified. What if it makes the problem worse?

Push responsibility for homework and results back onto parental supervision. Why should teachers always be blamed because kids can’t be bothered to revise.

Build more specialist units and schools. There are children forced into mainstream that just don’t do as well and don’t thrive. We are trying to force a curriculum, a timetable and environment on them that just isn’t suitable.

I’ve been a teacher a long time. I’ve seen teaching fads and fashions come and go and cycle around, particularly in pedagogy. It’s all just more work and paying consultants a lot of money. Some good things have happened, such as the improvement and understanding of SEND.

At the end of the day , teaching is all about building relationships with children and the adults in the school. When schools become full of toxic and bullying relationships, and data becomes king, no wonder people leave in droves. All the people I know who have left (including my family members) haven’t left because of pay. They left due to overwork, poor behaviour from pupils, too much paperwork eating into family time or a toxic bullying senior management.

We have to make the job attractive again. I wouldn’t encourage anyone to join now and it’s nothing to do with pay.

Mummyoflittledragon · 28/02/2023 05:01

clopper · 28/02/2023 03:06

Get rid of ofsted. Save millions and millions of pounds. Reduce stress and all the extra work ‘getting ready for ofsted’. Cut down the new ridiculous expectations on mentors and Newly qualified teachers and go back to the one year probation year. Do one exam board for national qualifications, from a board of experts based in this country.

Stop basing children’s gcse results on a test that they did at 10… children's circumstances change and they develop at different rates. Stop trying to make all schools like a market place. In the old days teachers willingly helped each other between schools without charging.

Stop making teachers and schools become pseudo social workers focusing on mental health… we are not qualified. What if it makes the problem worse?

Push responsibility for homework and results back onto parental supervision. Why should teachers always be blamed because kids can’t be bothered to revise.

Build more specialist units and schools. There are children forced into mainstream that just don’t do as well and don’t thrive. We are trying to force a curriculum, a timetable and environment on them that just isn’t suitable.

I’ve been a teacher a long time. I’ve seen teaching fads and fashions come and go and cycle around, particularly in pedagogy. It’s all just more work and paying consultants a lot of money. Some good things have happened, such as the improvement and understanding of SEND.

At the end of the day , teaching is all about building relationships with children and the adults in the school. When schools become full of toxic and bullying relationships, and data becomes king, no wonder people leave in droves. All the people I know who have left (including my family members) haven’t left because of pay. They left due to overwork, poor behaviour from pupils, too much paperwork eating into family time or a toxic bullying senior management.

We have to make the job attractive again. I wouldn’t encourage anyone to join now and it’s nothing to do with pay.

Thank you for a thought provoking post. My dd left mainstream 18 months ago to join a private school for year 9. Her former school was graded as Outstanding almost a decade ago. There are 3 other schools within approximately a 10 mile radius of my home with an outstanding ofsted rating and traditionally dd’s former school had the worst reputation for bullying and for not catering for students as individuals. I can therefore imagine the pressure was immense to get the grade, whereas the 2 of 3 other schools are more rural and have been graded Ofsted outstanding for years. In a way it does seem pointless to put so much effort into getting the grade.

On the flip side, as someone, who grew up when Ofsted was not a thing, we were mercilessly failed at the secondary modern I attended. The school would most certainly have been graded as inadequate and would have been put into special measures. But there was no such thing in the 1980s. I learned so little in the 4 years I attended that school.

Idk how I managed to pass my O levels. I can only imagine the level of knowledge required was lower and it does very much seem that way when I look at what my Yr 10 dd has to learn and she had been taught more than me when sitting my exams by the end of year 9. The gaps in my knowledge were huge and even in top set maths, I wasn’t taught the entire syllabus so when it came to a choice of A or B at O level, I could only do A as I hadn’t been taught B. There was time enough to learn but the teacher used us as ego boosting / therapy sessions to discuss his life. And not all subjects were funded to O level. I only came out with an handful of O levels and the rest, CSE grade 1, which was the highest I could attain and equivalent to the old C grade. English lit was not funded for example and I only got the MFL because I did the exchange visits every year allowed. We did 16 plus for a few subjects either attaining an O level or CSE and I was one of only 2 or 3 to achieve the O level grade.

I do therefore think there is a place for some kind of monitoring to ensure the increased standard we have seen over the past 3 decades since ofsted was introduced is maintained. Whatever form that took, be it peer reviews from partner / local schools, internal auditing or Ofsted, I imagine schools would be a lot better equipped to deal with these if the teachers weren’t acting as social workers, didn’t have mounds of repetitive paperwork to assess their assessments of the children and if there were a better rapport and trust between the students and staff.

From the posts I read on here and looking at the local secondary my dd used to attend, I think there is a lot of fear amongst school staff. I do wonder if the recent skirt issue at Rainford high a symptom of this or of a very toxic culture between students and staff, that the SLT trying to take back control. The way they acted sounds as though they treated the kids like prisoners, who then (if comments from a teacher there that day on a now deleted thread are believed), rioted. Incidentally dd’s friends still in her former school all refer to the school as prison and there are whispers they’re now going to stage a protest about toilet passes.

I do have a lot of respect for what the staff were trying to do at dd’s former school. It is an 8/9 form intake and I can imagine they are under enormous pressure. Dd’s year was a particularly difficult year. However, dd was not thriving there and I had the opportunity to give her the schooling I never had. The way the students are treated at her new school is so much better. The atmosphere is warmer, friendlier. It is such a shame that students and teachers cannot experience this.

You’ve made some very valid points. But unless the government invests what they would consider to be exorbitantly large amounts of cash, how is this fixable?

MrsHamlet · 28/02/2023 06:50

In some (too many) cases, the bursaries exacerbate the problem. Time and time again, I've had trainees in shortage subjects scrape through the training, never intending to teach. It's wasted money.

borntobequiet · 28/02/2023 06:58

ExhaustedUnhappyPigeon · 27/02/2023 23:26

Wow just looked at the subject that offer bursaries - sadly none for the creative subjects. Also surprised none for History yet Geography was a decent bursary!

On DD’s PGCE course there were 20+ History trainees and only 5 Geography, two of whom have already dropped out.

donquixotedelamancha · 28/02/2023 07:01

Wow just looked at the subject that offer bursaries - sadly none for the creative subjects.

Are you saying it's sad there aren't shortages in those subjects or do you not understand why the bursaries exist?

donquixotedelamancha · 28/02/2023 07:05

I think there is nothing that the government can now to do significantly reduce workload (and thus entice more people into the profession) that doesn't require significantly more staff in schools

  1. Restore pay for experienced teachers to reduce numbers leaving.
  1. Increase numbers of TAs, loads of qualified ones can't get jobs because of cuts.
  1. Restore funding for admin support, SEN provision and all the other cut, which will free up teacher time to teach.
  1. Stop slagging off teachers so the profession is more respected.

There is loads the government could do tomorrow, if they wanted to.

GreenLampOfLove · 28/02/2023 07:07

My DD was offered a place on a PGCE course this year, it all happened very fast. However she turned it down in the end--thank goodness. Former teacher, child of teachers...I didn't try to dissuade her but did say what a challenging job it was. Luckily she came to her senses on her own.
Having said that...we do need teachers 🤷🏻‍♀️

GreenLampOfLove · 28/02/2023 07:08

Not a PGCE actually but something similar, can't remember what it's called these days.

Whyarewehardofthinking · 28/02/2023 07:08

botheritsgone · 27/02/2023 22:58

I'm a teacher and the students we have had on placement have been beyond shocking in recent years. You get the very occasional gem but otherwise their understanding of how children learn and their knowledge of the curriculum is woeful. That's before you even attempt to tackle the increasingly challenging behaviours.
It frightens me what is to become of education in the next few years. From bad to worse.

I came here to say this too. We had 2 in science before Christmas and we have had so many issues it has been unreal. We have had poor trainees in the past but I am gobsmacked at the quality that is now accepted. Poor basic maths skills, bursting into tears when a student questioned something that was incorrect, considering yoga leggings (the bum sculpting ones) as professional dress in a secondary school, ringing in sick with a cold (I know we need to be better at being off when ill, but literally a bit of a cold for 4 days) and the best was not coming in during train strikes but we are in Manchester with trams/buses/uber/taxis and colleagues in the same area.

One trainee complained to their university that I corrected their chemistry with a Year 10 class. They taught chemical bonding (basic GCSE) wrong. Their complaint was that it was not my place to correct them in private, and should have done so before they taught the lesson. Unfortunately emailing me their lesson plan and PowerPoint 11 minutes before the lesson wasn't really enough time for me to give feedback, especially as I was stood outside on duty at the time.

We have 1 trainee for this block placement and so far so good, but by that I mean they are a functional human and seem to understand how to interact with teenagers.

kwiss · 28/02/2023 07:09

Appuskidu · 27/02/2023 22:18

You would think they might want us older career changers as we are less likely to quit

Interesting….all of the career changers I know who went into teaching, very quickly left!

This has been my experience too.

kwiss · 28/02/2023 07:11

Tsuipen · 27/02/2023 22:28

We have a trainee in the department this year. They’ve already decided that they won’t be applying for teaching posts for September. They are getting a 25k or thereabouts tax free bursary for completing this year even though they have no intention of teaching next year.

Yes, this is common in my department too, the large bursaries are a massive incentive straight out of uni but they have no interest in actually doing the job - a significant proportion of the trainees we do get are also actually really bad with a terrible work ethic.

Chanel05 · 28/02/2023 07:12

I think the promise of pay rises doesn't cut it either.

Although you may hear that teachers will receive 3% that year, the government may only put forward enough for 1% towards a school and the school need to find the rest, which they're often unable to do.

Believeitornot · 28/02/2023 07:12

gogohmm · 27/02/2023 22:11

I considered training but I can't afford not to earn at least £15k min during training and can't afford more debt due to my age (I need to be putting money into savings and pensions). You would think they might want us older career changers as we are less likely to quit

Same!

calimali · 28/02/2023 07:14

Stop 'experts' in behaviour managment peddling snake oil solutions that make the problem ten times worse. Stop pushing the blame for behaviour onto classroom teachers. Disruptive students need to removed and dealt with with SLT or behaviour managers, not by the teacher who is trying to keep the rest of the class on track and actually teach the lesson. Sending students into the room of a colleague who is already teaching their our class in there is clearly madness.

Stop pretending that a script will solve all issues. the students are not stupid - it takes them less than a day to work out that there has been training and that their teachers are now reciting a script like a robot.

the restorative behaviour brigade have a lot to answer for.

Believeitornot · 28/02/2023 07:15

kwiss · 28/02/2023 07:11

Yes, this is common in my department too, the large bursaries are a massive incentive straight out of uni but they have no interest in actually doing the job - a significant proportion of the trainees we do get are also actually really bad with a terrible work ethic.

Or maybe, being new to the profession, they realise that they shouldn’t have to put up with it.

Sometimes if you’ve been doing a job for a long time and conditions get gradually worse, you don’t realise just how absurd the working conditions are until you leave. And then slag off others for having a poor work ethic.

Having left a toxic workplace I’ve certainly realised that! No it wasn’t normal to be working to such intensity for long hours, working on my days off and at weekends and feeling rinsed.

MrsMurphyIWish · 28/02/2023 07:17

My HoD and second resigned at Christmas. They will see the academic year out. Two weeks before half term my HoD’s job was advertised (they are a “director” which means being part of SLT and doing all those tasks but being paid shite and still having a full timetable). Closing date is Thursday. Not one applicant.

Believeitornot · 28/02/2023 07:17

calimali · 28/02/2023 07:14

Stop 'experts' in behaviour managment peddling snake oil solutions that make the problem ten times worse. Stop pushing the blame for behaviour onto classroom teachers. Disruptive students need to removed and dealt with with SLT or behaviour managers, not by the teacher who is trying to keep the rest of the class on track and actually teach the lesson. Sending students into the room of a colleague who is already teaching their our class in there is clearly madness.

Stop pretending that a script will solve all issues. the students are not stupid - it takes them less than a day to work out that there has been training and that their teachers are now reciting a script like a robot.

the restorative behaviour brigade have a lot to answer for.

Not sure that’s the reason for poor teacher uptake rates when we have a massively underfunded education system.

calimali · 28/02/2023 07:22

@Believeitornot it may not be impacting on recruitment, but it has a massive impact on retention. One of the main reasons I quit after 30 years was the rapid slide into chaos in my school once we adopted this behaviour policy.

The trainees we had were overwhelmed with the behaviour issues they faced too. We had so many drop out mid training in my last few years in school.

Believeitornot · 28/02/2023 07:24

calimali · 28/02/2023 07:22

@Believeitornot it may not be impacting on recruitment, but it has a massive impact on retention. One of the main reasons I quit after 30 years was the rapid slide into chaos in my school once we adopted this behaviour policy.

The trainees we had were overwhelmed with the behaviour issues they faced too. We had so many drop out mid training in my last few years in school.

I guess it’s part of the puzzle but I suspect (wonder) if such behaviour practices are brought in as a sticking plaster.

It cannot be good for society to have underfunded education, high inequality etc as that will impact on young people as they’re not helped at the right time (ie during early years).

Mrcpy · 28/02/2023 07:24

Is life better for teachers in private schools? Is there better pay and more autonomy?

SoCrossAboutThis · 28/02/2023 07:24

Ucas are reporting that nursing and allied health profession course applications have also dropped off a Cliff. Combination of cost of living crisis and low wages in these professions maybe?