Merseyside pupils 'humiliated' by school skirt-length inspections

[SerendipityJane]

Probably too many questions to write in this space, but (a) would it have been acceptable if if was only female teachers that were doing the inspecting. and (b) what would the definition of female be in this case.

I guess my main question of when the fuck did it become 1923 is quite low in the list

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-64743377

Female pupils say they have been left "humiliated" over enforcement of a uniform policy at a Merseyside school.

Girls have been made to enter Rainford High School in St Helens separately to boys and have had their skirt length inspected by male teachers, they claim.

This issue is as old as the hills. Certainly from the 60s when Carnaby St & Mary Quant first became popular.
Miserable old women would report us to the Headteacher for rolling our skirts up too short. Sometimes they would complain that we weren’t wearing our (ghastly) hats.
I couldn’t understand it then & don’t now. Can’t for the life of me understand why anyone should be forced to wear a uniform for school.It certainly didn’t affect my ability to study ( or not depending how I felt).
In 2023, trousers would seem to be the best option, though I can understand it reduces choice for pupils who don’t wish to wear them.
Lastly, digressing slightly, the thought that girls have to produce a ‘Period Card’ to be able to go to the loo as reported today is totally unacceptable. There is no way my parents would have condoned this decades ago & I wouldn’t these days either. Outrageous.

The reason male teachers always end up doing the skirt length checks is because female teachers understand girls better and realise it’s not a battle to fight (and would be hypocrites as they did it themselves).

Pleated skirts with a big check and elastic waistband are the way forward. The pleat are forgiving for sanitary products and an elastic waistband is disguised, the checks mean teachers can just count the checks. Ours had to be 5 squares long. The long legged high waisted Year 12 girls looked most fashionable. Year 7 girls had theirs calf length.

The problem is these skirts are a pain to iron the creases in and they are costly. But the ones we had lasted years. You need a good second hand shop scheme.

You didn't say anything specific about grown women, I will acknowledge that. Although I presume that you would apply the same logic to them as well? Or do you think that male teachers are responsible for managing their reactions to what their adult female colleagues are wearing in a way that they can't be expected to manage their reaction to what teenage girls are wearing?

You're introducing the safeguarding argument into the discussion now, but your previous posts were all about the comfort of male teachers and girls having to dress in ways that wouldn't make then feel awkward.

I have raised my dd to have respect for herself and for her body, and I would say that her overall approach to dressing herself reflects that self respect. I would never want to teach her that she needs to dress for the comfort and approval of the men around her, and if we're going to talk about safeguarding, then personally I think that message is quite a dangerous one to promote.

So you actively choose not to properly teach pupils whose skirts you deem are too short…rather than sorting the problem out?

excellent “teaching”

If schools would just relax and let kids wear joggers or whatever, then half of this problem would probably evaporate in any case.

Although I presume that you would apply the same logic to them as well?

You presume wrong.

Why don’t you answer my questions? Do you think I should let my 3 year old take her clothes off in public? And if not, why not?

So adult women are free to wear what they like without worrying about what the men think, but teenage girls must be taught that they are responsible for making men feel comfortable?

Re teaching children about nudity? Well, I taught my dd about protecting her privacy and having self respect, but it would never have occurred to me to tell a 3yo not to strip off in public because it might make someone else feel uncomfortable?

Why are you refusing to answer my questions and instead making up things I haven’t said then arguing against them like I did say it? Completely bizarre.

So adult women are free to wear what they like without worrying about what the men think, but teenage girls must be taught that they are responsible for making men feel comfortable?

FFS if you don’t understand the basics of safeguarding as a parent, then I’m really quite worried for you. You’re desperately trying to twist this into an iNTerNALIsEd MISOGNy issue because I think deep down you’ve just realise you’re a groomer’s dream.

Well, I'm not really refusing to answer your questions, but I'm not going to say what I think you should teach your dd about what to do or what not to do in public.

I have already responded with regard to what I taught my own dd. I taught her about the concept of privacy, and that she had the right to protect her own privacy, including the privacy of her own body. I taught her to have respect for herself, including respect for her body, and never feeling under pressure to do things with her body or dress in certain ways to please other people.

She wasn't ever the type to strip off, so it's hard to say how I'd have reacted...it would probably have depended on context and her reasons for stripping off etc. Would I have minded her running around in a vest and pants at the age of 3 on a hot day? No, probably not. Would I have wanted her to strip naked on the street in mid winter? No, probably not.

We used to have school skirt inspection. They’d do surprise checks after assembly and girls who had skirts would be called to the front row by row.

there’d be frantic unrolling of skirts gonig on.

we also had checks to ensure we weren’t wearing culottes.

it’s was an all girls school, and the inspection was done by the mainly female staff. We were allowed to wear trousers (not culottes) or skirts.

I think it's you that doesn't understand basic safeguarding.

Safeguarding has nothing to do with making men feel comfortable. Teaching girls that they are responsible for helping men to feel comfortable is not a very good thing to do from a safeguarding point of view.

I’m not sure we’ve read the same post. That’s not what I’m reading. I’m reading it as a teacher who sees how a short skirt affects their learning and makes them self conscious. A teacher who is stopping a child being laughed at by calling someone else up.

Exactly this. Seems like a kind teacher who does not want to embarrass a girl at the front of the class.

When did I say it did? Your posts are getting weirder and weirder and conflating/making up things as they go along 😂

Issue 1 - it’s manners not to expose yourself to anybody who doesn’t want to see it. I also don’t want to see the outline of some bloke’s nutsack as he manspreads in his shorts. And I can see how a girls arse on the stairs in front of a male teacher would make him feel uncomfortable 🤷🏼‍♀️

Issue 2 - safeguarding

I really would like it if you would stop making things up and making me spell obvious things out to you, it’s tiring.

This.

Yes, I left in 1990 and trousers were just starting to become more popular.

Sorry but girls walking around flashing their arse cheeks is uncomfortable for male teachers and not fair on them

This is what you said. Your concern was for the comfort of male teachers rather than for the privacy of the girls concerned. That is what I was objecting to. That is not a message that I would ever give to my dd, and I don't think it's a message that has anything to do with safeguarding.

I agree. I’m embarrassed for many of the girls I see walking around with their knickers on display.

My daughters teacher actually said to her this week that short skirts mean the boys look up then when they go up the stairs. She is 12 and reported it to the pastoral care teacher who thankfully had a word but Jesus, what the hell?!

But that teacher doesn’t ask those children to come to the front of the class - in anticipation of those children being embarrassed. If they’re not embarrassed walking round school like it then it’s unlikely the short walk to the front of the class will cause any issue.

I don’t read it as an act of kindness, more of laziness from a teacher who doesn’t want to either engage with a student about the uniform policy or deal with the classroom aftermath once the whole class has supposedly fallen about laughing.

Of course it’s uncomfortable for the men but it’s also uncomfortable for the female teachers, other girls and anyone else who has to follow a girl up the stairs. It is worrying about the girl’s privacy too. Why they feel the need to do this?

I had a child walk up the stairs in front of me with a skirt so short that when she took a big step (2 stairs at a time) you could see the wings on her sanitary towel. I am sick of seeing arse cheeks when I walk around school, it is impossible to not see them when their skirt is pulled half way up their bum.

It isn’t just the male teachers that don’t want to see your child’s genitals, I don’t either. Feminism isn’t just about empowering women, it is about equality. If you wouldn’t accept a teenage boy forcing your daughter to see his arse or penis when she was at school then you can’t allow your daughter to force other students to see her arse or vulva.

We no longer do none uniform days either because of the amount of completely see through leggings that were worn, nobody should be forced to see another person in their underwear against their will.

Or saving the child being embarrassed.

The girls are the one choosing to remove their privacy. They are the ones consenting to their bums being on display, the male teachers, female teachers, male students and female students are the ones having their comfort taken away.