Merseyside pupils 'humiliated' by school skirt-length inspections

[SerendipityJane]

Probably too many questions to write in this space, but (a) would it have been acceptable if if was only female teachers that were doing the inspecting. and (b) what would the definition of female be in this case.

I guess my main question of when the fuck did it become 1923 is quite low in the list

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-64743377

Female pupils say they have been left "humiliated" over enforcement of a uniform policy at a Merseyside school.

Girls have been made to enter Rainford High School in St Helens separately to boys and have had their skirt length inspected by male teachers, they claim.

Making young girls kneel on the floor to check something that is clearly visible by eye - if it is actually a problem - is humiliating. You were treated without respect and you don't even realise it. That is why this shit matters.

In any other circumstance I can't imagine a professional male leaving themselves open to such interpretation?

Yes, I'm actually quite surprised the male teachers are willing to participate. Doesn't seem a good idea for anyone involved. I wouldn't be happy if my husband were doing that.

I'm sick of people policing what girls and women wear.

Yes, some girls wear very short skirts to school. Yes, it doesn't look very nice. No, it doesn't impact on their ability to learn.

I think schools should stop fussing so much about uniform and focus on the things that really matter.

So why should we have to see underwear?

it’s wrong that male teachers did it

but it’s about time girls just wore trousers or complied with the rules. I dont let my son go to school in tiny shorts - firstly boys do not go around wearing very little and also I would tell him that we don’t all want to see his arse. It’s just common sense.

yes let girls wear what they want, yes it’s wrong male teachers were involved, yes let’s not body shame girls but just wear the right clothes for school. Every month it’s the same on MN and the press. It’s making out that girls have no control over what they wear and have to wear rolled up skirts.

Isn't there something in valid in them understanding you can't always just wear what you want?

Sometimes is it policed. Most jobs have a 'dress policy', even if it is business casual and that doesn't extend to flashing your crotch. (Which the girls I saw this week pretty much were...)

So maybe learning while at school what's acceptable to wear, where, is a good thing.

What’s wrong with teens these days? They’re so sensitive and dramatic. We had skirt inspections, I don’t remember any shaking and crying, just rolling them back up again afterwards

Sorry but girls walking around flashing their arse cheeks is uncomfortable for male teachers and not fair on them.

Am I the only person to notice that the BBC thinks the vox populi has a Scouse accent? If they ever want the opinion of a working class man/woman/etc in the street, ideally moaning about the government then they send a reported out to Liverpool to shove a microphone in someone's face - why do people in Liverpool fall for this? It doesn't do their image any favours does it?

I'm not going to get too deep into the age old uniform debate - about 20 years ago, so the fable goes, a head teacher - single handedly, against all odds - turned the tide in a failing school - they achieved Bodhisattva level enlightenment and went on to do great work in the world of education and one of the things they did was clamp down on adherence to a uniform policy - that was seized upon, identified as a causal, a key element of transformation - and it became the 11th commandment of modern education....every dumbkopf proto-head teacher since seems to have swallowed this hook, line and sinker - going counter to the whole point of an education - to be able think for yourself - and placed undue emphasis on uniform policy. Meanwhile - in Finland (where my friend of 20 years has taught in an international school) - there is no uniform policy and students are on first name terms with the teachers - Finland - consistently ranked highly on a global scale by many different measures. It's complicated - I'm not interested in arguing with anyone about anything these days; I speak as a very happy ex-teacher.

Out skirts had to be between 3" above or below the knee. One year a group of girls checked skirts in charities week, fining us 1d an inch to raise money. About 67 or 68.

So women and girls should only dress in ways that make men feel comfortable?

Oh please you know exactly what I mean and trying to turn this into ‘iNTeRnALISEd MiSOGyNy’ is ridiculous. If you think everyone should dress as they please do you agree with the transwoman teacher with massive fake tits in Canada?

its about time the school uniform was the same for everyone, trousers and a top/shirt

This takes me back. I was 6ft at some point in school (now 6ft 2) and there was one skirt from the school shop. It was too short on me but they couldn't have one made longer as it was standard size and length only. Weren't allowed to add a hem and there was branding that made it an issue anyway. Arguments every day and girls weren't allowed trousers.

I am against uniform but this problem has been going on forever. Girls rolling their skirts, told to roll them down and do, only to reroll a second later.

For fucks sake...

Poor men. Poor, poor men. How will they cope? How on earth will they be able to focus on their work when there is a flash of ass???

I do know what you mean but I'm uncomfortable with the implications of your logic and where it could end up. In some cultures, men might feel uncomfortable if women are showing their ankles. Or their hair. Or their faces. How far are we going to take it in order to ensure that the men don't have to feel awkward?

As for the teacher in Canada, I'm afraid I have no idea who you're talking about. However, I think there is a difference between paid professionals being asked to conform to a certain dress code in work and policing skirt lengths of school children.

I used to wear my school skirts as short as I could possibly get away with as a teen. Difference is I would not turn on the tears and go running to mummy when pulled up about it. What a bunch of spoilt little princesses.

Same at dds school. One length.
they’ve sent letter after letter about the lengths of girls skirts, whilst some are and do roll them up to ridiculous heights (as did i until we were allowed trousers), they don’t help themselves with one length

@Moonicorn internalised misogyny sounds about right to me, to be honest. That's the thing when it's internalised, you're not aware of it.

I do have an internal struggle with it though. In one way it should be ok for them to wear them however they want it’s not “asking” for anything blah blah blah.

but

i do roll my eyes at the number of arses I’ve seen

Ffs

What's measurements have to do with it? It either looks wrong or looks ok

I wish girls would just wear trousers anyhow

It doesn’t matter if you’re indulgently ‘uncomfortable’. Male teachers should not have to spend their days avoiding glancing at underage girls bum cheeks. And before you start with ‘why are they looking anyway’, when you work in a school surrounded by hundreds of kids it’s impossible not to glance around and notice things and you’d be very disingenuous to say it isn’t. The safe and simple solution to all of this is for girls to wear skirts that cover their arses.

Policing skirt lengths 😂 what next ‘policing’ whether they do their work? ‘Policing’ whether they go to school? How soft and boundaryless do you think life should be for teens? I have a dress code for work and I’m in my 30s.

Our male head teacher used to inspect girls' knickers to make sure they were regulation school knickers. Grammar school, 1970's.

He'd rightly be in prison now I hope, although he was also a magistrate so maybe not.

Awww because as a woman I can’t know my own mind unless you approve of what I’m saying? Who needs men to think that when other women do 🤷🏼‍♀️

Oh come on. This was something that used to happen when I was at school and you got sent home for s short skirt.

Trousers for girls solves all these problems. But it's the school uniform so the school rules.

If you think it’s acceptable for private body parts to routinely be on show between underage kids and adults in positions of responsibility, then you’re more of an issue than the teachers are 🤷🏼‍♀️