Page 5 | Anyone found that working full time when you have primary aged child isn’t that financially viable

Kittencuddle · 2023-02-23T13:35:47+00:00

So been sahp for years do voluntary work and have a busy and full life dh in high salary so no benefits etc anyway a job has come up with the organisation that I volunteer for it not well paid 25-27k per year but I think it would be really enjoyable ds in year 4 well half way through year 4 so he would need to go to before school club and after school club I think this is over 20 quid a day maybe around 25ish ? id need a second car and it’s a 50 min drive each way so no idea how much petrol is use a month ? it’s Mon to Fri 9 -5 so even getting back to collect from after school at 6 could be right if there’s any road accidents etc plus in holidays I guess I’d have to use holiday clubs or child minder so I’m just wondering how financially feasible this is dh sometimes works from home but it’s not reliable so I’d have to have a child care plan in place

Birdsbirdsbirds · 23/02/2023 16:52

redskydelight · 23/02/2023 13:43

It would be normal for one parent to drop off and work later and the other to start earlier and pick up. At the very least you will avoid the need for breakfast club.

Or you (both of you) can request different patterns of flexible working (obviously might not be granted) - for example working 2 longer days and 3 school hours days.

You should still have plenty left out of your salary.

I wouldn't say that was normal at all to be honest! A lot of places don't accommodate randomly earlier or late hours.

Tiredalwaystired · 23/02/2023 16:52

Haven’t read the whole thread so forgive me if it’s been covered but you can apply for funding for 20% of your childcare costs from the government which takes some of the hit. Can also be used for holiday clubs.

Original poster

Kittencuddle · 23/02/2023 16:55

Also certainly not a case of I don’t want to work, as I already do work but I do it currently on a Voluntary basis and have done so for the past 5 years

OP posts:

Original poster

Kittencuddle · 23/02/2023 16:56

So this tax free childcare thing id this for anyone, would it still apply if dh is a high earner ?

OP posts:

Marmite27 · 23/02/2023 17:01

SimplySeb · 23/02/2023 16:50

Gazelda · Today 16:09
@SimplySeb you have very strong views on working mothers and working fathers.
Women should be more understanding of the paths men have to travel in the workplace.
No. What I am saying is the male experience of the working environment, career path, employer expectations, company culture, etc. are different. Our society has an expectation on men to succeed at work. There is an expectation that a man's salary should be high, not least because our society is stuctured in a manner that favours male employment progression. The inflexibility in many men's working environments in the private sector is there because that is how we teach men to succeed, and what it currently required of them to succeed.
It seems that in your view working mothers aren't as valuable as working fathers.
No. In my view the person who has the greatest ability to gather resources outside of the home to support the family should fulfil that roll. Yes there are households where you have two breadwinners. But in most households you have aprimary breadwinner and a spouce who brings in an additional income. I know a couple my spoce used to work for where the mother was the primary source of income. She was high up in a government department. DH was a SAHD.
Working mothers aren't as committed to their children as SAHMs are.
Have I understood that right?
No. I only advocated that if the second income is not required for a comfortable home life, the the second is superfluous, at which time it becomes a weighting up of costs vs benefits. On the costs side of things you have the second car, insurances, child care, work clothes, etc. You also have any unknown impact on your child, which only a mother can know and assess. DS is only 4 remember, and by all accounts he has had a stable routine that is all hes known.
On the other side of the equation you have the security of an independant income if you dont trust your husband not to leave. You have the possibility of a seperate private pension. You have a safety net if DH loses his career, etc.
Its a balancing act, and only OP can weigh those choices. Only OP knows how secure her relationship is, how she thinks her child will react to not being with her all the time. But the thread is very one sided, and I wanted to present the arguments against work as opposed to for it.

(I don't know why I'm engaging, to be honest. But your posts have riled me and come across as insulting to women and working mothers).
Thank-you for taking the time respond in such a careful and considered manner.

OP’s son isn’t 4, he’s year 4, so aged between 8-9.

PanettoneMoly · 23/02/2023 17:03

You’re not eligible for tax free childcare if you or DH have an ‘adjusted net income’ over £100,000, which usually (but not always) means basic salary less pension contributions.

mewkins · 23/02/2023 17:04

SimplySeb · 23/02/2023 14:25

Yep. And if DS hasnt discovered that Mummy can leave and there's nothing he can do about it, he'll learn quickly enough. This isn't leaving DS in the softplay while you look around Ikea. If he's not prepared for it, this is leaving him for 10 hours a day with at least two, if not three differen sets of people.

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It sounds like you're trying to justify why you don't work to be honest.

An 8 or 9 year old should be getting pretty independent at that age and probably enjoys interacting with his peers more than he enjoys being home.

Op, as others have said, it doesn't have to be this job, but I'd look at what's out there now. Also, if you've been out of the workplace for 9 years or so you will be looking at jobs that may not be that financially appealing right now but maybe look at them as a gateway back into the workplace.

Original poster

Kittencuddle · 23/02/2023 17:08

Suppose what it boils down to for me is how much better or worse off i would be ?
would it be enough money to make it worth my while
as I can wait until he’s year 7

ill either carry on working volunteering
when I get to see my youngest loads and all be there for my older teen

or do I go for a paid job that will require me to work ft

so I’ll be working either way

OP posts:

mewkins · 23/02/2023 17:09

SimplySeb · 23/02/2023 15:03

I do get that if he's a manager at Asda he can just tell the company to FO. But not if he's a corporate lawyer, a project manager for a building firm, a lobbyist for an oil giant, or a airline pilot. 'Flexibility' is a marker for non-committed also-rans in the male workforce. It does not work if DH is a high performer in his field. In fact, the most successful 'flexible' workers I have come accross are small business owners and entrepreneurs.

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That's your experience but not mine. Plenty of companies are building more flexibility into roles. They have to in order to attract and retain decent people.

SimplySeb · 23/02/2023 17:11

Mitfordian · 23/02/2023 16:30

I work for a bank in senior management. My senior male boss works compressed hours. Other men block out diaries for school pick up.

You either worked during the 1950s (where you attitudes belong) or you don't work in the corporate world you're pretending to🤔

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So meetings are arranged around school times and dog walking dutues?

If I have to have a 4pm meeting to manage my design team in Manila, that's an 8am conference call. I tend to hold them at 7am because they run for an hour, and my team have already put in a whole day, and if I want clarity its better to talk to them a 3pm, than 4pm. Our meetings can run for a few hours particulatily about 4 weeks into a project when interfaces with other design teams becomes critical, and at various points where closing out elements become time critical.
Independant supplies like Novum (South Africa) are easier to manage because they are contracted to design and supply a product that is either correct or it is not, and they are only 2 hours out. But others suppliers like Kin Long in China can be a hightmare because they view responsibility differently to the way we view it in the west, and they are also 8 hours out.

But I am employed to deliver something, on time and within budget, and I'm good at it. I cannot use the excuse that I had to drop my kids off at school or I was out walking my poodle.

However, as I already mentioned, my boss can. He owns the business and if he wants to leave to pick DDs up from the swimming pool, he does. But that is the benefit he has having built the business, and not merely working for the business.

hryllilegur · 23/02/2023 17:13

Twizbe · 23/02/2023 14:39

@hryllilegur I've got a friend who's a surgeon. She can be pretty fixed with her start times for drop off, she cannot reliably commit to pick up though. Her partner has to do those. She can't just walk out the operating theatre at 4:30 because she had to collect the kids....

Incidentally she had the same issue with nursery always trying to call her if there was an issue.

Some jobs are a bit less 9-5 regular.

So the division of labour is that she can do drop offs. he does pick ups. And he gets to be first emergency contact. Both parents are responsible.

Most jobs are not surgery or similar. Most of the supposedly Very Important jobs that men claim mean the can take no responsibility for their children are not even close to being like surgery. Very senior people in many organisations can - and do - say they have ‘a hard cut off’ and leave to pick their kids up. In fact, it’s easier for men because everyone treats them like a hero for doing so.

mewkins · 23/02/2023 17:15

SimplySeb · 23/02/2023 17:11

So meetings are arranged around school times and dog walking dutues?

If I have to have a 4pm meeting to manage my design team in Manila, that's an 8am conference call. I tend to hold them at 7am because they run for an hour, and my team have already put in a whole day, and if I want clarity its better to talk to them a 3pm, than 4pm. Our meetings can run for a few hours particulatily about 4 weeks into a project when interfaces with other design teams becomes critical, and at various points where closing out elements become time critical.
Independant supplies like Novum (South Africa) are easier to manage because they are contracted to design and supply a product that is either correct or it is not, and they are only 2 hours out. But others suppliers like Kin Long in China can be a hightmare because they view responsibility differently to the way we view it in the west, and they are also 8 hours out.

But I am employed to deliver something, on time and within budget, and I'm good at it. I cannot use the excuse that I had to drop my kids off at school or I was out walking my poodle.

However, as I already mentioned, my boss can. He owns the business and if he wants to leave to pick DDs up from the swimming pool, he does. But that is the benefit he has having built the business, and not merely working for the business.

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It's perfect acceptable where I work to block out 30 mins for a school run. Both men and women do it. I work for a huge global company.

Generally dogs can be walked at any time rather than a set time each day. Though my manager takes a set hour each day for lunch (he doesn't even have a dog).

hryllilegur · 23/02/2023 17:18

If you feel there is absolutely not flexibility or tolerance of having childcare pick ups - especially in a job where you’re already showing flexibility to accommodate time zones, and where the boss does just decide to leave early for pick ups, then I’d suggest there are much better employers out there who would value your skill set and not be arseholes about the fact that children must be picked up by X o’clock.

Truestorypeeps · 23/02/2023 17:21

Hobbitfeet32 · 23/02/2023 16:25

@Truestorypeeps do you see yourself as less committed?

I'm less committed in terms of the hours I spend directly raising my children, it's irrefutable. My time is shared between them, my job and other pursuits. It doesn't mean I love them or care for them any less, but I am less visible and present in their lives than their mother. I work because I have to provide financially. If I was a multi-millionaire would I be working five days a week? Not a chance.

Mitfordian · 23/02/2023 17:22

SimplySeb · 23/02/2023 17:11

So meetings are arranged around school times and dog walking dutues?

If I have to have a 4pm meeting to manage my design team in Manila, that's an 8am conference call. I tend to hold them at 7am because they run for an hour, and my team have already put in a whole day, and if I want clarity its better to talk to them a 3pm, than 4pm. Our meetings can run for a few hours particulatily about 4 weeks into a project when interfaces with other design teams becomes critical, and at various points where closing out elements become time critical.
Independant supplies like Novum (South Africa) are easier to manage because they are contracted to design and supply a product that is either correct or it is not, and they are only 2 hours out. But others suppliers like Kin Long in China can be a hightmare because they view responsibility differently to the way we view it in the west, and they are also 8 hours out.

But I am employed to deliver something, on time and within budget, and I'm good at it. I cannot use the excuse that I had to drop my kids off at school or I was out walking my poodle.

However, as I already mentioned, my boss can. He owns the business and if he wants to leave to pick DDs up from the swimming pool, he does. But that is the benefit he has having built the business, and not merely working for the business.

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Maybe your attempt at a flex explains why you have the views you do. The rest of the world has moved on and the best people demand flexibility and don't work those hours anymore. It's been a main topic of discussion in board rooms in relation to retention and attraction. You might have a better quality of life elsewhere. Unless you want to work long, unsociable hours so that your spouse can look after the kids while you play the big shot?

AcrossthePond55 · 23/02/2023 17:28

Kittencuddle · 23/02/2023 17:08

Suppose what it boils down to for me is how much better or worse off i would be ?
would it be enough money to make it worth my while
as I can wait until he’s year 7

ill either carry on working volunteering
when I get to see my youngest loads and all be there for my older teen

or do I go for a paid job that will require me to work ft

so I’ll be working either way

Suppose what it boils down to for me is how much better or worse off i would be?
would it be enough money to make it worth my while

Don't be short-sighted. It may not seem 'worth your while' right now financially but as time (and wages) progress it may very well be.

I was a working mum and I never thought about child related costs coming out of 'my salary', they came out of 'our salaries'. Joint responsibility for costs, joint account for payment.

If you have joint accounts then theoretically your DH will be paying half the costs since all costs will come from a 'joint money' account. So if you want to look 'what you will have after childcare/car expenses' only deduct half the costs.

Hobbitfeet32 · 23/02/2023 17:58

@Truestorypeeps thats quite sad. Me and husband bring in a high earning amount of money. Neither of us are less committed to the children.

We are both senior clinicians in the nhs. kids spend about 6 hours per week in wraparound. Definitely not damaged by this and they enjoy the opportunities that a decent income can provide. We both can be flexible if needed. Yes it inconveniences work if you have to leave in an emergency but it’s possible.

Truestorypeeps · 23/02/2023 18:17

Hobbitfeet32 · 23/02/2023 17:58

@Truestorypeeps thats quite sad. Me and husband bring in a high earning amount of money. Neither of us are less committed to the children.

We are both senior clinicians in the nhs. kids spend about 6 hours per week in wraparound. Definitely not damaged by this and they enjoy the opportunities that a decent income can provide. We both can be flexible if needed. Yes it inconveniences work if you have to leave in an emergency but it’s possible.

Perhaps you are tired after a long day. Commitment is time and energy to a task. I said I was less committed in terms of the actual amount of TIME I spend with the children. I cannot commit any more time as I am working. My time commitment to them IS lower than my wife's.

If someone works 100 hours in a job (in this case, I'm talking about directly parenting) and another 20 hours, then one person is more committed in terms of the amount of time spent doing a task...here's no basis for argument in this limited sphere.

Headabovetheparakeet · 23/02/2023 18:34

Kittencuddle · 23/02/2023 16:56

So this tax free childcare thing id this for anyone, would it still apply if dh is a high earner ?

Depends how high an earner he is. I think the max limit for TFC is £100k per parent.

Original poster

Kittencuddle · 23/02/2023 18:40

Headabovetheparakeet · 23/02/2023 18:34

Depends how high an earner he is. I think the max limit for TFC is £100k per parent.

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So does that mean if dh earns over 100k
I won’t get tax free childcare ?

OP posts:

Original poster

Kittencuddle · 23/02/2023 18:41

Also a big factor is we have no family support from any grandparents
so no back ups

OP posts:

Original poster

Kittencuddle · 23/02/2023 18:43

Financially even if I split up with dh money wise I’d be fine, bought a house at 22 years of age when houses were so so much cheaper

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Original poster

Kittencuddle · 23/02/2023 18:44

bit if it was financially rewarding I’d consider doing ft now rather than waiting say 2 and a half years

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Headabovetheparakeet · 23/02/2023 18:45

So does that mean if dh earns over 100k I won’t get tax free childcare ?

Yes, I think so but it is worth checking the childcare choices website.

Headabovetheparakeet · 23/02/2023 18:45

Kittencuddle · 23/02/2023 18:44

bit if it was financially rewarding I’d consider doing ft now rather than waiting say 2 and a half years

Something to keep in mind is that the opportunity may not be there in 2.5 years time.

Anyone found that working full time when you have primary aged child isn’t that financially viable

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