Being a vegan is bad for the planet

[Connorsnotthedad]

Prove to me I’m wrong

Vegan leather-type materials can be made from non-plastics, such as Pinatex or AppleSkin where natural materials are used to create a fabric, which can be backed with/mixed with polyurethane to produce a leather-like fabric. Or they can be made from cotton and PU in a similar way. PU is normally made from petrochemicals, but there are some sources that use vegetable oils like castor or soy to create the PU.

Manufacturing leather includes the use of various unpleasant chemicals which can have dreadful effects on the environment and on the health of people exposed to them. And leather shoes will use adhesives and can use plastic components as well.

@AdventFridgeOfShame how are you fertilising your peas though, especially with the price of gas making fertiliser unaffordable? How are you ensuring that pests and disease are being kept at bay if you are just growing peas - what else are you having in rotation if not grazing animals?

@fyn , your not a farmer are you. Never met a farmer who has grazing animals as part of crop rotation.

I also advocated including some livestock in most efficient use of land.

Very common in my area for sheep to intensively graze on stubble turnips etc for a rotation as part of e.g a mob grazing setup.

It's also very common to turn cows out onto hay meadows once they have been cut and baled to graze what is left and refertilize the soil.

You need a thesis not a teapot

Oh piss off

The only solution is Soylent Green

Being vegan is no better than any other way of eating/consuming if it involves a high level of processing or monocrop growing or flight miles.

If we want to be healthy it needs to be local and in season. I don't consider vegans eating soy grown across the world any better/worse than someone buying meat from their local farm.

I couldn't care less. I still am one.

I think that importing milk and dairy replacements is bad.

If everything was vegan we would only be able to have synthetic fertilisers as we wouldn't have any animal dung to use.

Veganism is less viable the further away from the equator you go as you wouldn't be able to grow enough food all year round without very unenvironmentally friendly green houses all over the countryside.

It would be interesting to know how much less soya and other animal feed would be used globally if other countries didn't factory farm food and actually let their animals out into fields.

@SalviaOfficinalis , it used to be called ‘faux’ leather. Using the French word for false/fake made it sound a lot swankier I suppose - it was still plastic, though.

None of the vegans I know do it for the planet (whatever the fuck that means, the planet is and always will be just fine) The vegans I know don't because they don't fancy eating stuff from animals.

What a surprise. The OP hasn't returned...

being human is bad for the planet.
some human habits are worse than others for the planet.

@AdventFridgeOfShame Im not a farmer, I’m a land agent with a four year degree in agricultural land management though. Having a crop (whether stubble turnips, sugar beet, clover or a grass ley) that animals can graze is truly best practice for improving soil health, destroying pests and disease build up and increasing fertility without damaging chemical fertilisers, pesticides and herbicides.

It's not mumsnets place to tell you why you're wrong. Do some research and come to a decision on your own. Or open a discussion. Don't just say prove it to me while I sit here. Weird thread

Cruelty, it has to be said, to fluffy, big animals.

A sterile monoculture of crops is cruel to millions of tiny, ugly critters all at once.

I'm not a vegan/veggie hater, either! I'm just highly cynical about the explosion of veganism recently, and hold sincere doubts that the corporations leaping on the bandwagon are being remotely ethical in their management of crops etc.

The only way I can see out of it for myself is to cut down meat to the local, organic stuff, grow my own veg where I can - especially the stuff that's shipped in - and take rescue hens for the eggs.

It's not perfect, but it feels less open to exploitation than veganism.

@NeverTrustAPoliceman

😃😆😆😆

Pigs being burnt alive by CO2 in a gondola should make you angry. Chickens dying in their own shit with fractured legs because they’ve been bred to a weight that their skeleton can’t sustain. Cows reduced to birthing machines. Not a word.

To op you lay out your debate first then I’ll give you my facts and sources as to why the planet and sustain billions of animal eaters.

You probably won’t so my short reasoning is you can’t be perfect but you can aim to eliminate some suffering, not ALL but some. But let me guess if you can’t eliminate it all then why try eh.

Such a ridiculous argument. Methods can be improved upon,don’t be do disingenuous.

See I assumed OP was a vegan and was trying to play devils advocate by showing that no-one could prove that being a vegan is bad for the planet.

Non-vegans can also wear plastic shoes, eat highly processed food, consume soya etc and eat meat/dairy products from animals which have been fed soya and other crops which need a huge amount of water and space to grow.

It's not as straightforward as pitting a vegan against a non-vegan diet.

Not all vegans eat the fake meats and processed food which the op presumably has in mind. As a vegan myself, I never eat these foods.
My vegetables are sourced from a farm 5 miles away and I carefully consider my purchases, whether it's food or clothing. As another poster has said it's all about treading very lightly.

Brad Pitt here. I do fancy the socks off ya!

I don’t believe much about meat vs veg narratives. When you find out that oil and gas funded the anti nuclear narrative, sun cream makers Fund their skin damage research, and that the term follow the money has never been so prevalent in getting to understand many of the narratives we are lied to with, then I am sceptical about anyone telling me what’s best for me and the planet.

What i do know, is that when I moved to a largely meat and berries based diet and excluded wheat and vegetables, I felt ten younger, my vitiligo regressed, my energy levels are constant all day, I eat less, it’s cheaper, there virtually no waste going into food bins and we went from 3 x green bins down to 1.

So I can’t say which is better for the planet - but I know which method feels better and appears to create less waste. And it’s not plants.