Prue Leith and Assisted Dying.

[Jaichangecentfoisdenom]

I happened on this discussion earlier today, on LBC:www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/david-lammy/prue-leith-makes-case-for-assisted-dying/ I've made it clear to my family that when the time comes, if I'm suffering from a terminal illness, I'm off to Dignitas in Switzerland - but I'm lucky, we can afford it. Religious reasons aside, what would you want for family and yourself?

I can't think of any other issue where general public sentiment is so clear yet successive governments fail to act. Why is this? Is the Church an influence here?

And to add - euthanasia may seen the logical option. But I've met far too many families who all say the same "yes Aunt Mabel is 101, but she was pottering around her allotment six months ago so you should do a full balls-to-the-wall, rib-cracking resus attempts at 3am or we will make a complaint/accuse you of letting her die".

DF had a terminal diagnosis, was going downhill rapidly & couldn’t live the life he wanted, lived on a small holding, kept a shotgun and took his own life with that having called emergency services so SM didn’t have to find him. I suppose he sort of said goodbye to me the night before when he phoned and asked me to research his diagnosis. I completely understand why he did it, but I wish family had been able to say goodbye. DM died many years ago, suddenly, age 52, if she had to die young at all, I’m glad she went the way she did and not a long drawn out ending with no quality of life(which if she had survived was a big possibility). I don’t want a long drawn out ending either and hope that assisted euthanasia is around when I’m either too old/Sick to enjoy life.

I want it when the time comes. I'm fortunate to live in Australia where it is legal , so I don't have to fight for the right to a dignified end. I just hope that the UK can pass similar legislation without too much fuss.

I am in favour. I filled in the recent survey (as some of you may also have done) as part of the inquiry into assisted dying. I included that I think we need a referendum on the matter.

Having witnessed people in extreme distress and pain I would not like close family and friends to go through that. I would not like to 'exit through the torture chamber' as Polly Toynbee has often aptly put it.

I support it. The women in my family have an unfortunate tendency to develop dementia and then keep living, after a fashion, for a very long time. I won't be dying the way my grandmother did, I decided that a long time ago, and if euthanasia isn't legalised if and when I get the diagnosis I will be forced to act sooner than I otherwise would have, potentially robbing me of quality life. These life at any cost advocates never consider this.

Assisted dying is complex. Life insurance will not pay out. It’s not always as simple as can you afford the service.

my friend developed a terminal illness and wished it. The life insurance company said it was considered suicide and his family would not get the pay out. As such, he sadly had to struggle to the end, as they financially needed the money once he was gone, as he was working age.

As far as I’m aware, it’s those who would be doing the assisting who are most reluctant, which is fair enough.

I'm highly likely to get dementia. I want to die before that. I want a quick end.

Absolutely. As long as medical professionals are in agreement about diagnosis and prognosis, give people a dignified end if they wish. You wouldn't keep a dog, cat, horse in pain so I don't understand why humans are different.

Having watched my DF die an undignified and horrific death I absolutely agree with assisted dying. If I ever find myself with a terminal illness I will take care of it myself - this will probably mean dying earlier than needed but I would fear leaving it too long and becoming unable to deal with it.

It really infuriates me that the religious elements have such a strong influence here even though so many people don't subscribe to those religions. Why can't it be that those that believe what those religions say about suicide, ban themselves from it and allow the rest of us to end our lives in a calm, painless dignified and quick manner. I shall be taking matters into my own hands but just need to find a way that doesn't look like suicide to ensure insurance pays out. Unfortunately most of those methods seem quite violent such as 'accidentally' drowning.

For anyone interested in listening, I highly recommend a podcast called Intelligence squared, and in particular the debate about assisted dying from December 2021.

About 80% of doctors working in palliative care are anti and you can hear from one in that debate.

I’m a doctor. I am not in favour of assisted suicide. I am in favour of advanced planning and proactive palliative care which I think we have taken a massive step back with in this country over the last 10 years. The media take on palliative care pathways and DNAR decisions over the last few years have made discussions about dying incredibly difficult, to the point that we have very frail people with very little quality of life who do not have DNAR decisions because of the view that doctors are trying to bump people off and save the NHS money they won’t even have the discussion so we can explain what it really means. As a society we’re terrible about talking about death, old age and our wishes and as a result we are nowhere near a situation where it is normal for a GP to say “we’ve known for a long time that your relative is nearing death, they have a chest infection now, let’s only give them medicines that keep them comfortable”. We’re years and years from that. The idea that we can jump from where we are to clinics where people go to die is unrealistic and won’t work.

We need to go right back to the start. Discussions about care planing and advanced wishes need to be normalised. It shouldn’t be the expectation that a frail elderly person will have an attempted resuscitation if they die, we need to change the perspective on this as allowing someone to die naturally in a dignified way, not that a lifesaving treatment has been withheld. We need health professionals to feel confident that they won’t be called murderers for keeping people comfortable. We need high quality care settings. When we have all of that, if people still feel the need for assisted dying provisions then that is the time to have that conversation.

Yes. It's very easy for laypeople to demand that doctors euthanise them when they won't have to get their own hands dirty.

Totally agree with you. I sign everything I can find on this topic. Been watching my dad suffer for three years with a degenerative condition- and my mum become a prisoner in her own home wanting to care for him. He doesn't want to be here but there's nothing we can do about it. Affects the whole family. I'm not having my own kids go through this if I can help it. It's wicked.

My DF asked me to help him die. Aged 93, multiple illnesses, bed-bound, still at home with a "care package". I wish I could have helped.
He started refusing food, & when that didn't work he stopped drinking as well.

No-one should have to starve & dehydrate themselves to death.

I just hope that the law is changed before I decide I want to die.

Some life insurance policies pay out on suicide, as long as the policy has been in place for a certain amount of time.

We treat animals better at end of life. You wouldn’t let a dog suffer the way that people with dementia do at the end of their lives.

I don't think I would opt for assisted dying, the idea that someone else then has to live with the fact they have ended my life is not something I can get my mind around.

I have like a post before me however made an advanced decision/living will which is very clear about me declining antibiotics and medications where the aim is to prolong my life (rather than reduce pain and physical and mental discomfort) if I lose capacity. It is worded much more carefully than that but that is the gist of it.

It is surprising how many people will say things about telling their children they want to have their life ended if they get dementia but they don't make use of the legal options we do have in terms of advanced decisions. They aren't perfect but it is better than nothing.

I agree. It's not just dementia of course. Both my parents are on their 90s and neither has dementia, but they can no longer see, can hardly hear, cannot walk unaided, have catheters, can't wash or wipe themselves. No appetite. Both want to die. It's just getting slowly worse for them every day. They have both had enough and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

I'm so sorry for you both.

Thank you for this, @taybert. When my father, in his seventies, was terminally ill in hospital in the Eighties, and it was a matter of days or weeks before he would die, we were taken aside by the doctors in charge of his case, and as my brother and I understood it, were obliquely asked if we would prefer them to up his medication so that he would "feel no pain" but also, would die sooner than if on a lower dose of morphine. Maybe we misunderstood the doctors, from what you are saying? Anyway, he died in the early hours of the Sunday morning after the Monday we were asked about it. Thank God, he was more or less out for the count after several days of pain, though before that, his mind wandered strangely as a result of the morphine he was on. We still felt he suffered too much. Decades later, our mother was in her eighties and demented and so, so, so, unhappy. I wasn't there, I have no idea if there was a DNR for her, and I do so hope she didn't suffer as much as our father did at the end.

@Jaichangecentfoisdenom I wasn’t a doctor in the 80s so I don’t know what it was like then. In palliative care the main aim is comfort, so you give the dose of painkillers that controls the pain whilst balancing the side effects of the drugs. Generally speaking you gradually increase the dose and give more if you need it to control symptoms. I guess the doctor could have been telling you that the symptoms weren’t controlled and that they would give more medication to control the pain but a side effect of that may be that he could die sooner. Generally that is considered acceptable when someone is dying but the aim is to control the symptoms, not to hasten death.

1. having sat by a loved one dying begging to be let go, age 83 in a body that doesn't function with a terminal illness :anyone who wants this for a loved one doesn't know what love is and is a sadist pyscopath.

2. having worked in old. Folks homes and seen first hand just how utterly vulnerable these people are especially with dementia, no one would choose this. No one.

It's immoral.

As Pru said why does the so called Pro lifer get to dictate what everyone does..
Let those of us who want to choose choose. And go with dignity.

Those that want to struggle in in pain whilst they slowly dehydrate and starve whilst their "loved one" watch on... Let them choose that!!