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Ed Sec looking to reduce teacher workload to avert strikes (England)

281 replies

noblegiraffe · 16/02/2023 17:55

The Telegraph is reporting that Gillian Keegan has instructed the DfE to look into ways to reduce teacher workload to avoid strike action, because the government is still refusing to look at pay either this year or next.

Apparently teachers spend 22 hours a week teaching and 29 hours a week on non-teaching tasks according to research by Ofsted in 2019.

Suggestions to reduce this include 'websites that mark answers for you in maths' (Are there any maths departments without a subscription to one of these already?), and stopping trying to quantify progress for Ofsted.

Better suggestions would be:
Scrapping Ofsted graded inspections and replacing with safeguarding checks
Increasing the number of qualified teachers (improving pay would help here) to reduce workload for experienced teachers who have to plan/support/pick up after supply or unqualified teachers
Guaranteed minimum one PPA per day (this would need more teachers, see above)
Funding CAMHS and stopping expecting teachers to do this job
Funding SEN provision properly

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/02/15/teachers-workloads-could-cut-bid-halt-strikes-schools/ (paywalled)

OP posts:
SleeplessWB · 16/02/2023 20:52

The trouble with the government trying to reduce workload is that lots of these things are not controlled by the government e.g. Stupid policies about phoning home for every detention and teachers holding them separately - schools should be able to sort this out and improve teacher workload! The things the government can change need money and they seem very unwilling to hand that over....

Sucessinthenewyear · 16/02/2023 20:57

MTIH · 16/02/2023 19:20

Won't Gillian mean just a return to the ‘21 jobs that a teacher must not do’ type agreement. ( or something naff like that, if anyone can remember? - no photcopying, no putting up displays...)

In practice a list of jobs that either ended up passed on to the even more poorly paid TA or as teachers we carried on doing them anyway, because ‘someone had to’

Meaningless.

I remember this. We got new photocopies but they won’t show us how to use them because that would be training us in one of the 21 tasks - but there was no one else to do the photographing.

noblegiraffe · 16/02/2023 20:57

I think Gillian Keegan has been going into meetings with the unions and being told what an utter dire state education is in, recruitment crisis, shortage of teachers, lack of funding and actually agreeing that something needs to happen.

The government are signalling that they are utterly unwilling to back down on pay.

Teachers are saying that workload is a large part of the problem.

Right, says Gillian, we can look at that, how can we fix that. But, and here's the key, it can't cost anything because I'm not going to get any money from the Treasury. Hence the utterly banal suggestions.

OP posts:

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

napody · 16/02/2023 20:58

noblegiraffe · 16/02/2023 18:14

I think genuinely reducing workload would cost the government more than the requested pay rise.

Of course it would!

Schools run on free labour and goodwill, and it's just about run out.

Your original list of suggestions is absolutely perfect.

napody · 16/02/2023 21:00

Scrapping ofsted grades and switching to safeguarding inspections would save money, or course.

I'm sure it was your analogy that ofsted inspections should be more like food hygiene inspections, less like restaurant reviews.

HedyPrism · 16/02/2023 21:10

I could do without:
Restorative conversations in my PPA time, break or lunch.
Taking students to break / lunchtime detentions in my breaktime.

I'd like:
An extra lab tech.
A reprographics person I could email with my printing needs.
Glues and whiteboard pens restocked when they run out.
Time to deal with all the pastoral stuff for my tutor group.
Students and parents to take more responsibility.

noblegiraffe · 16/02/2023 21:16

I could do without:
Restorative conversations in my PPA time, break or lunch.
Taking students to break / lunchtime detentions in my breaktime.

Sounds like you could do without Paul Dix.

OP posts:
MrsHamlet · 16/02/2023 21:22

Someone mentioned "restorative" behaviour management today. That person needs to fuck off to the far side of fuck, and then fuck off some more.

Evvyjb · 16/02/2023 21:38

It's not a sanction, it's an "RJ".

I HATE IT

RuleWithAWoodenFoot · 16/02/2023 21:40

noblegiraffe · 16/02/2023 18:14

I think genuinely reducing workload would cost the government more than the requested pay rise.

Definitely. It's an all mouth no trousers thing, as per usual.

I'd like to see:
More PPA - blocked for primary, probably covered by specialists
Support service funding increases - CAMHS, speech and language, EAL, Sure Start
Specialist provision - urgent, urgent, urgent
ELSAs and counsellors funded in every school
Better salaries for TAs/LSAs
Ofsted to wind their necks in - just 'strengths and development' inspections unless safeguarding is a concern
Primary specific - curriculum to be reduced, it's V boring and overloaded

I want these things more than I want a higher salary.

Although it's too late for me, I'm leaving in the summer. My main reasons are the level of inclusion (due to associated workload) and the fact that under this government, there are attempts to turn teaching into a press button effort that can be carried out by the unqualified. Underfunding teaching staff (including support staff), is underfunding education. When Labour have been in 5 - 10 years, I might be back.

MrsHamlet · 16/02/2023 21:42

Evvyjb · 16/02/2023 21:38

It's not a sanction, it's an "RJ".

I HATE IT

It can fuck off on the horse it rode in on

RuleWithAWoodenFoot · 16/02/2023 21:45

Yep - my school is just about to start with this. You can fuck that sky high.

Forever42 · 16/02/2023 21:51

I would much rather have a reduction in workload than a pay increase but it isn't going to happen unless they get rid of Ofsted or at least severely curtail its remit. That would wipe about 90% of pointless tasks. Totally agree that deep dives subject leadership at primary is one thing that should go. I am in a small school and manage two subjects (neither of which I have a subject background in). I get a few hours per term to do anything related to this (assuming they can find anyone to cover) and zero opportunities for any training.

There also needs to be sufficient funding for schools to employ enough staff for PPA cover. I am supposed to have 2 hours 45 minutes of PPA time but it is covered by a TA (not HLTA, and for an absolutely paltry amount of additional pay) so there is only a limited amount of things I can actually get her to do with the class. I end up only taking half my alloted time because otherwise I end up spending ages planning and preparing things for the TA to teach. If a teacher was covering me I could just leave a quick lesson outline.

Forever42 · 16/02/2023 21:54

And YY to extra SEND support. Then I wouldn't have to spend my time trying to write plans etc for a child with severe additional needs that I have no training in and no outside support for. Apparently our SENCO was told Ofsted likes teachers to write these themselves, even if they're "not perfect". So these children have inadequate learning plans written by teachers who have no idea how best to support them because it will save money on getting someone special in (and save the SENCO some time).

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 16/02/2023 22:03

Piggywaspushed · 16/02/2023 20:04

Put a cap on sixth form class sizes. It's not fair that I have (very mixed ability!)classes of 26 to offset the funding crisis . I remember when 12 was the norm.

We currently have a cap of 20 for science subjects post-16, but I think it's very likely we will go over this next year. Currently have two classes of 13 + 15 in Y12 for one subject but been told it won't be viable next year. Possible a few of them won't continue, but otherwise we'll be over.

About 15 is a really nice class size.

To be honest, I need a cap at KS4 more though- I've got a triple group of 33, which I feel is genuinely unsafe, and looking at similar (possibly MORE!) next year.

RuleWithAWoodenFoot · 16/02/2023 22:10

Forever42 · 16/02/2023 21:54

And YY to extra SEND support. Then I wouldn't have to spend my time trying to write plans etc for a child with severe additional needs that I have no training in and no outside support for. Apparently our SENCO was told Ofsted likes teachers to write these themselves, even if they're "not perfect". So these children have inadequate learning plans written by teachers who have no idea how best to support them because it will save money on getting someone special in (and save the SENCO some time).

"If you can't accept that you'll be spat at or hit by a child, then you can't work in schools these days."

Actually said in a meeting I was at. What about keeping staff safe in their place of work? If they are hitting and spitting at me, how many children also have to get hit and spat at?

I've written some alright plans for SEND children, but I had to go right back to the EY curriculum to do it - the nursery curriculum. I'm a KS2 teacher. Luckily my school gave me 90 minutes non contact time to do it. Ha.

twinkletoesimnot · 16/02/2023 22:10

@Bleese
*
All this subject leadership stuff is done outside my working day and I'm just a PT classroom teacher. It's completely unfair on primaries but even more so on tiny primaries.*

Totally agree!
It's so unfair on tiny primaries.
I'm subject leader for 3 subjects (1 core) across 2 tiny primaries. I get a half day per term to do this!

I also have a small, mixed age class. No TA and more than half of the ch have some kind of additional need / SEN.

I'm permanently exhausted and feel like a crap mum when I'm on top of things at school, and a crap teacher if I dare to spend some time with my family.

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 16/02/2023 22:14

noblegiraffe · 16/02/2023 20:57

I think Gillian Keegan has been going into meetings with the unions and being told what an utter dire state education is in, recruitment crisis, shortage of teachers, lack of funding and actually agreeing that something needs to happen.

The government are signalling that they are utterly unwilling to back down on pay.

Teachers are saying that workload is a large part of the problem.

Right, says Gillian, we can look at that, how can we fix that. But, and here's the key, it can't cost anything because I'm not going to get any money from the Treasury. Hence the utterly banal suggestions.

There is no genuine workload fix that doesn't cost money, apart from things that will either negatively impact students or be really unpopular with parents.

Things that would be free and would reduce my workload include:

-Never marking anything ever including mocks (clearly this would negatively impact students, though)

-Teaching solely from pre-prepared resources with no adaptation to my classes (would be absolutely crap).

-No reports at all (I actually think this would have minimal impact, reduce stress 3 times a year etc. But parents would hate it).

-No parents evenings (ditto).

-No running of "support sessions"/after school revision (would be massively unpopular with students and parents, I actually wouldn't mind doing it if my workload was otherwise reasonable).

-Not dealing with pastoral/safeguarding issues (clearly this isn't acceptable).

BUT

Actually, none of this solves the issue that in my last job I was getting to the point where I couldn't live in the town, and easily afford my rent/bills and a tiny bit of a social life. Unless you make the job hugely less stressful, which I genuinely believe is impossible, no-one is going to put up with that.

I don't actually want to do a bad job as a teacher. I'd like a bit more PPA and class sizes that feel reasonable (20 would be ideal, I think, but <30 certainly). But most of all, I want pay that enables me to live comfortably and actually enjoy myself a bit in the holidays.

twinkletoesimnot · 16/02/2023 22:15

I agree @RuleWithAWoodenFoot

Going to my sofa space instead of lying on the floor when I need a sensory break.

Learn my number bonds to 10

Know s, a, t , p, i, n

Those are some targets for ks2 children on the IEPs I have had to write lately.

I feel like we are not supporting them enough and also doing a disservice to other children in the class. But there's only 1 of me!

RuleWithAWoodenFoot · 16/02/2023 22:25

twinkletoesimnot · 16/02/2023 22:15

I agree @RuleWithAWoodenFoot

Going to my sofa space instead of lying on the floor when I need a sensory break.

Learn my number bonds to 10

Know s, a, t , p, i, n

Those are some targets for ks2 children on the IEPs I have had to write lately.

I feel like we are not supporting them enough and also doing a disservice to other children in the class. But there's only 1 of me!

Yep.

One of mine has one target "Will tolerate another individual in the room"

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 16/02/2023 22:32

"If you can't accept that you'll be spat at or hit by a child, then you can't work in schools these days."

I find it mad what some primary staff are expected to tolerate these days. In all honesty, if someone said this to me, I'd be straight on to my union rep, and asking about my health and safety- despite what they say, their plan can't be for members of staff to get repeatedly hit.

And in my experience, it genuinely doesn't happen in secondary- I'm not sure if it's because the risk of harm is seen as greater, but IME, students who are assault staff are still excluded at secondary. Possibly if it was just spitting, and there was significant SEN, it might be accommodated, but there's no way any school I've worked in would accept a student repeatedly hitting staff.

I know in some cases the extreme behaviour will improve, and I know some students move to special schools at secondary, and there's more AP, but I don't understand why staff in primary schools are expected to tolerate this, and why schools pretend there's nothing they can do.

Febb · 16/02/2023 22:33

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

This.

In my class of 30, 17 are SEN, working at least 18months behind expected. Of these, there are 3 awaiting EHCPs and should be in special (some working at toddler/nursery level so need full time 1:1 just to access anything, or not totally interrupt the rest of the class) There are about 6 more with such severe home lives, trauma, drugs etc I dedicate about an hour a day to safeguarding and social services recording on top of the rest of it. And another 3 awaiting CAMHS referrals, waiting list currently over 12 months.

I'm at breaking point and it's not doing any one of those 30 kids any good.

They need proper support through SEN schools and proper NHS and CAMHS.

DelphiniumBlue · 16/02/2023 22:35

I'd like to add, last week some parents were more than 20 minutes late collecting their DC every single day. That is time that I could have spent planning/organising trips..that still had to get done, so it just meant I had to stay at school longer. That is almost 2 hours a week wasted, standing in the playground, waiting for parents or babysitters. This is not unusual.

There is a the ridiculous amount of paperwork to set up the trips and other extras. Just so you all know, just one of the trips I am arranging entailed 18 separate emails and several forms! So I regularly end up spending all of my PPA arranging trips and then my planning has to be done at other times. Time that I am not paid for. This is mostly due to the fact that the( much reduced) admin staff no longer deal either with organising trip paperwork or looking after uncollected children, because staffing has been cut to the bone.
I don't want the children not to have trips, I think they are really valuable. But the government needs to recognise that we cannot continue doing all these free extras. And parents, please turn up on time!

CallmeAngelina · 16/02/2023 22:35

Not having to set cover when you're off sick.
Being able to take (occasional) days off in term time for one-off events. (not exactly workload-related but would make a difference).

Sherrystrull · 16/02/2023 22:42

I'd be happy with

A full time TA per class
A class of 24 or less
Ofsted reduced to safeguarding

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