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Ed Sec looking to reduce teacher workload to avert strikes (England)

281 replies

noblegiraffe · 16/02/2023 17:55

The Telegraph is reporting that Gillian Keegan has instructed the DfE to look into ways to reduce teacher workload to avoid strike action, because the government is still refusing to look at pay either this year or next.

Apparently teachers spend 22 hours a week teaching and 29 hours a week on non-teaching tasks according to research by Ofsted in 2019.

Suggestions to reduce this include 'websites that mark answers for you in maths' (Are there any maths departments without a subscription to one of these already?), and stopping trying to quantify progress for Ofsted.

Better suggestions would be:
Scrapping Ofsted graded inspections and replacing with safeguarding checks
Increasing the number of qualified teachers (improving pay would help here) to reduce workload for experienced teachers who have to plan/support/pick up after supply or unqualified teachers
Guaranteed minimum one PPA per day (this would need more teachers, see above)
Funding CAMHS and stopping expecting teachers to do this job
Funding SEN provision properly

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/02/15/teachers-workloads-could-cut-bid-halt-strikes-schools/ (paywalled)

OP posts:
Piggywaspushed · 16/02/2023 20:04

Put a cap on sixth form class sizes. It's not fair that I have (very mixed ability!)classes of 26 to offset the funding crisis . I remember when 12 was the norm.

PetitPorpoise · 16/02/2023 20:04

Cherrysoup · 16/02/2023 19:56

Please god, yes, a PPA a day would’ve amazing! Mostly, tho, I need a secretary who can make phone calls for me to tell parents their child has done xyz and will be in detention, someone to do my photocopying for me and someone to input data and organise school trips abroad which takes forever!

Curriculum TAs would be good for this. Rather than being attached to SEN students, they work with departments or groups of departments (e.g Humanities). We had an English TA in my last school and she took some small intervention groups a few times per week, sorted and delivered large scale photocopying like assessment papers, did all the displays, resources ordering, trip admin, occasional short term cover etc. She was amazing and also really busy, which just shows how much extra stuff there always is to sort.

Automated texts should be used more effectively for frequent minor comms like detentions etc.

Cherrysoup · 16/02/2023 20:07

PetitPorpoise · 16/02/2023 20:04

Curriculum TAs would be good for this. Rather than being attached to SEN students, they work with departments or groups of departments (e.g Humanities). We had an English TA in my last school and she took some small intervention groups a few times per week, sorted and delivered large scale photocopying like assessment papers, did all the displays, resources ordering, trip admin, occasional short term cover etc. She was amazing and also really busy, which just shows how much extra stuff there always is to sort.

Automated texts should be used more effectively for frequent minor comms like detentions etc.

That would be bliss. My school has a policy of phoning parents for after school detentions. I spent 20 minutes one day last week, the parents are really worried about their child and wanted a counselling session and in depth discussion re why/how etc. I’m happy to talk to parents, but I have lessons to teach too and some calls go on for far too long.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Piggywaspushed · 16/02/2023 20:09

I just wouldn't do it...

I avoid a lot of workload by never setting detentions...

Pigriver · 16/02/2023 20:10

At primary it would take

Smaller classes
TA per class - paid correctly to get decent staff
Access to SEMH support, SEN support
More special schools for those who want them rather than being made to be in a mainstream that everyone agrees isn't working
A SEN teacher over school so the neediest kids get some time with an actual trained teacher
Us not having to be everything to everyone e.g. feeding and clothing children

Yeah, it would be cheaper to give us a payrise

MrsHamlet · 16/02/2023 20:10

I don't do after school or lunchtime or weekend or holiday revision. Pay attention in class. Do what I tell you. That's enough.
I have been told more than once that I "should". Not going to happen.

solidaritea · 16/02/2023 20:12

That article makes me quite cross. Do you think the telegraph has an angle? "Teachers say they work well beyond the 1265 hours" - no shit, Sherlock. They say it because it's the contract. 1265 are directed hours, nothing to do with full working hours. Utterly pointless graph.

As for pay, £38k after 5 years? Only if you get pay progression every year, which is far from guaranteed these days. (And a reason that pushing for a pay rise is unwise in my mind. Schools will find more reasons not to push people up the payscales, if the pay on that spine point is higher).

Can they:
Put CAMHS workers and social workers officially into schools, to stop schools evening expected to do it without funding or skills
Have a decent system for assessment in primary, and don't allow the publication of stupid articles that claim that SATs show whether children have basic English and maths skills
Remove the amount of paperwork for SEN and acknowledge that today's primary schools need at least 1 TA per class to cover lower level needs, with EHCPs being reserved only for the highest, OR acknowledge that SOME schools are incredibly good at inclusion and fund these schools appropriately, without requiring 3 days worth of paperwork just to get basic funding

That's 5 minutes of thought.

PetitPorpoise · 16/02/2023 20:22

@Cherrysoup you are right. I did a stint as a non teaching HOY and it is a Full Time Job if done and managed properly. Teachers simply do not have time for the long conversations and behaviour monitoring. Don't get me wrong, some non teaching pastoral can be too pally with the students -which is counterproductive to say the least / but with proper training, understanding of the role and quality management they do take work away from classroom teachers.

Wotcha23 · 16/02/2023 20:25

More PPA, smaller classes, more cover staff who are trained teachers permanently employed by one school and can fill gaps and absences. Definitely more admin support. I feel like large secondary schools in particular have very few admin staff for such big institutions. As suggested previously, they could be attached to faculties for paperwork, data entry, phone calls, supplies, trip organising, letters and communications, photocopying.

vipersnest1 · 16/02/2023 20:28

@Cherrysoup, that was the thrust of 'the 21 tasks' initiative some years back. Of course, it never happened because there was no one to devolve the tasks to. 🤷🏻‍♀️ So we all carried on doing tasks such as data entry, displays, etc.
@noblegiraffe, the idea of a PPA every day would be heaven. Currently mine are all at the start of the week, which makes no sense to my possibly illogical brain as it's at the end of the week where I feel ready to plan for the next week IYSWIM. I have a TLR and have never been given the allowance I'm entitled to for it. Like you, I'm a maths teacher but also KS3 coordinator and Numeracy coordinator. This year, numeracy is supposed to be the whole school focus.... Have I been given any time to liaise with heads of faculty or heads of subject, let alone any staff training time?
You know the answer, of course. And meantime I've got initiatives to deal with uniform and attendance to deal with as a form tutor. On the behaviour front, I'm also supposed to contact home every time I give a student a middle or high behaviour sanction 'to find a way forward'.
I could work all day and all night and there still wouldn't be enough time to do my job. It's soul-destroying.

Piggywaspushed · 16/02/2023 20:29

We have that. It doesn't work as well as it sounds like it would.

Mischance · 16/02/2023 20:29

Turn the clock back to having schools inspectors who had a dual role: both inspection and support.

That way you get rid of OfSted and all the totally nonsensical data collection and box-ticking; and you have an inspection system that means that if your school is found to have a problem, the inspector and the LEA have a duty to be helpful - e.g. CPD provision.

We also need to beef up the LEAs so that heads do not waste their time (and gobble up their budget) setting up SLAs for all the services and advice that used to come from the LEA for free: legal, buildings, SEND assessments etc.

The education services are in a total mess, and I take my hat off to all those teachers who work their tripe out to provide children with a good experience in school in spite of being hampered by government policies. Boy does it all make me cross!

MTIH · 16/02/2023 20:31

Ed. Sec. could also share out the large CEO salaries that academy trusts offer. Think of how many admin and support staff that could be provided.

MrsHamlet · 16/02/2023 20:32

We do still have a repro tech. She is worth her weight in gold.

SleeplessWB · 16/02/2023 20:33

Cherrysoup · 16/02/2023 20:07

That would be bliss. My school has a policy of phoning parents for after school detentions. I spent 20 minutes one day last week, the parents are really worried about their child and wanted a counselling session and in depth discussion re why/how etc. I’m happy to talk to parents, but I have lessons to teach too and some calls go on for far too long.

That's a really big waste of your time @Cherrysoup - we have a fully automated system - click the behaviour issue direct from the register and the detention length is set automatically, text sent to both parents for detention the same day. All detentions are centralised and run by SLT.

noblegiraffe · 16/02/2023 20:36

On the behaviour front, I'm also supposed to contact home every time I give a student a middle or high behaviour sanction 'to find a way forward'.

Dear god.

My school has reduced workload massively in the last few years by centralising behaviour and homework detentions. I never have to run detentions now, just set it and it happens elsewhere.

However, my workload has also increased over the past few years with the expectation that parents are contacted regularly for various things. Stuff that used to just be a 'poor' on termly reports like homework is now a phonecall home. And it's always phone home (find an office with a free phone at a reasonable time to catch a parent), never emails that could be done at convenience and scheduled.

The whole 'nothing that is said at parents evening should come as a surprise' mantra that many on MN love to parrot means that parents evenings, which used to be the main method for informing parents of various things, are now just telling parents stuff that they know because they have also been informed in that teacher's own time.

OP posts:
HerbalTeaAndCake · 16/02/2023 20:39

Funding CAMHS and stopping expecting teachers to do this job
Funding SEN provision properly

A thousand times this!!!!

DrMadelineMaxwell · 16/02/2023 20:40

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 16/02/2023 19:30

A full day's PPA means full days of teaching the rest of the week though, right? What happens if you're unwell on the PPA day?

A full period of PPA each day would be really good though.

In terms of directed time, I think there should be a proper requirement for schools to publish their calendars and it should be ensured that they don't go over, including trapped time. I don't know how this could be enforced but I do think it should be checked in some way.

This is what happens in every primary I've been in. Your day is full unless it's your PPA day and if you are ill (or school shuts for a strike etc) then you lose your PPA and it's tough luck!

HerbalTeaAndCake · 16/02/2023 20:40

mnahmnah · 16/02/2023 18:04

One PPA a day would be amazing. I just can’t hack full teaching days much longer.

Scrap meetings for the sake of meetings. Have them only when we actually need them.

Stop lunch and after school revision sessions. If you teach them well enough and they do quality homework, they shouldn’t be needed.

Stop the countless parents evenings - not the standard subject ones - I mean the ‘information’ evenings etc that are extra and pointless.

We don't have any bloody parents evenings any
Ire. We have 5 minutes on zoom. Which half the teachers turn up late to, so its more like 3 minutes. Then it automatically cuts off.

cantkeepawayforever · 16/02/2023 20:41

HerbalTeaAndCake · 16/02/2023 20:39

Funding CAMHS and stopping expecting teachers to do this job
Funding SEN provision properly

A thousand times this!!!!

And fund social services properly, making referrals for neglect etc concerns streamlined and immediate. In primary, a huge amount of time is taken on family support - both emotional and practical, from supporting children to do homework in school through to laundry and food.

Cherrysoup · 16/02/2023 20:41

SleeplessWB · 16/02/2023 20:33

That's a really big waste of your time @Cherrysoup - we have a fully automated system - click the behaviour issue direct from the register and the detention length is set automatically, text sent to both parents for detention the same day. All detentions are centralised and run by SLT.

We're centralising after half term, thank god. I'm often sat with one child for an hour after school. Such a waste. We've been trying to stop the calls to inform parents for ages. Now they're centralising, they've said they are devolving all emails to hods, which will be lots worse!

cantkeepawayforever · 16/02/2023 20:43

This is what happens in every primary I've been in. Your day is full unless it's your PPA day and if you are ill (or school shuts for a strike etc) then you lose your PPA and it's tough luck!

Try having PPA on a Monday pm - if there is a Bank Holiday, everyone else gets OOA that week except you….

SleeplessWB · 16/02/2023 20:49

Cherrysoup · 16/02/2023 20:41

We're centralising after half term, thank god. I'm often sat with one child for an hour after school. Such a waste. We've been trying to stop the calls to inform parents for ages. Now they're centralising, they've said they are devolving all emails to hods, which will be lots worse!

So you'll have to send an e-mail individually for detentions? That's ridiculous.

Anothernameanother · 16/02/2023 20:50

Mischance · 16/02/2023 20:29

Turn the clock back to having schools inspectors who had a dual role: both inspection and support.

That way you get rid of OfSted and all the totally nonsensical data collection and box-ticking; and you have an inspection system that means that if your school is found to have a problem, the inspector and the LEA have a duty to be helpful - e.g. CPD provision.

We also need to beef up the LEAs so that heads do not waste their time (and gobble up their budget) setting up SLAs for all the services and advice that used to come from the LEA for free: legal, buildings, SEND assessments etc.

The education services are in a total mess, and I take my hat off to all those teachers who work their tripe out to provide children with a good experience in school in spite of being hampered by government policies. Boy does it all make me cross!

Yes. The amount of headteacher and leadership team time spent on contracts and paperwork, the fact that we have to have school business managers and an enormous office team to deal with business matters because there's no centralised support, is astoundingly wasteful.

Cherrysoup · 16/02/2023 20:51

SleeplessWB · 16/02/2023 20:49

So you'll have to send an e-mail individually for detentions? That's ridiculous.

No, that happens already via an Admin person when we click the behaviour on the register. Currently any queries are filtered through Admin but now will be sent to hods to deal with. Mad.