Leave London for safety

[padsi1975]

Hi. I live in nice enough part of East London. Good primaries and a few good state comprehensives. Very very nice neighbours, easy commute to work. I like London although increasingly find it too busy and noisy (think I'm noise phobic). However, the thing that worries me the most is safety for my children as they get older and more independent. The young teenage son of a neighbour was mugged on his way to school (for a rubbish old phone). DH's friends teenage daughter was sexually assaulted on a weekend afternoon, returning from the nearby shop. A friend who grew up in London says he got mugged a number of times as a teenager. Is this something that I have to accept is likely to happen to my children if we stay here? Surely this is unusual and doesn't happen elsewhere? My friend is a teacher and THREE of her students have been stabbed to death over the last 10 years. She's not from here and says her teacher friends in her home country have never experienced anything like that (and I suspect teachers outside of London would say the same)? I wonder if me/DH have become desensitised to the crime from living here for so long and are doing wrong by our children by staying here. My 11 year old asked to go to the shop yesterday and I said no as my main concern was him being mugged. Am I being paranoid? I can see a lot of benefits for the children by staying in London but this safety issue preys on my mind a lot. Thanks.

I've lived in London for 25+ years and have never been mugged and I don't know anyone else who has either - certainly not any children I know! Knife stabbings are almost always gang-related, triggered by turf and drug wars. Living outside London won't make you immune from that - county lines are very, very real and getting worse. Our friends who moved out of London to the north because they were worried about their DS and gangs have found the problem has followed them – drug-taking is rife amongst bored teens in rural areas. So while my teen DC is hopping on buses and Tubes to go to visit friends or go to places like Camden Market, theirs is down the one park in their village smoking weed. I know what I'd rather mine be doing!

And seaside towns aren't any better - crime and drugs are rife in places like Ramsgate and Margate.

This is crazy. 'West Midlands' covers everything from leafy, calm (mostly!) Shropshire to very urban, diverse, rough parts of Birmingham

And it's the same with London; which is big enough to qualify as a country.

Mine have reached Uni age having had a brilliant life growing up in S London. Yes, bad things happened close to us but mostly within gang culture, not to those not involved.

In my job I work late nights and travel home on public transport and then walking from bus stops, never had trouble, in 30 years living and working in London.

Meanwhile my Dc benefitted from fantastic free cultural offers and activities. Zip card travel. Great schools (on average state school attainment levels are higher than the national average), and independence amongst friends who lived a short walk away due to schools with tight catchments.

We also took advantage of the great countryside and walking that surrounds London at weekends and in school hols.

Move for work or if you prefer a different lifestyle, but bear in mind it will be much harder to ever move back.

The risk of getting stabbed is everywhere now. Only in the last week two 16 year olds lost their lives to this in different parts of the country.

Grew up in NE England. Was beaten up at age 17 by a group of 4 men while I waited for taxi on a main road. I can't count the number of times I was followed, had men I appropriately touch me on public transport. No one around.

University in Reading. The town centre was terrifying. Empty city centre. Gangs of teenagers. Drug use openly. No one around.

20 years in Brixton. Commuting daily. I felt safe as houses. Anything inappropriate, which was minimal, there were plenty of people around or shops open who rallied around and saw them off.

I feel safer in London than anywhere in the UK

Yep, and ‘London’ means 10.5 million people, the vast, VAST majority of whom are normal, thriving, peace loving, law abiding, community-minded people, even if they live in areas deemed not ‘leafy’.

Big fishes in small ponds are the most dangerous. Low level vandalism and crime in sleepy towns and villages are the worst for a general passer by IMO

Bad things can happen everywhere and I try not to live in fear.

This. Bad things aren't exclusive to big cities. There are bad people and crazy people and chancers everywhere.

Look at the Soham murders. I am sure everyone thought that was a perfectly safe environment to bring up children. Or Abigail Witchall who got attacked in a leafy village.

I live in a semi-rural affluent area and there are plenty of crimes happening on a daily basis. Just not always the same ones. Mostly burglaries, violent car theft, drugs but even here were starting to hear of more violent crime in young people. Nowhere is immune.

It doesn’t really matter what statistics and league tables say; if you don’t feel safe then move.

I don’t recognise the London you describe, though I understand it happens of course. It’s a city of 10 million so my experience will be very different to many others. My kids are having normal kid/teen/YA lives and have not seen anything like stabbings etc. One of them knows a person from a sports club whose cousin was stabbed and it was related to gangs. But that’s pretty distant as a link.

I know a family who moved out of London recently on the fear of such things happening and since then their daughter has been involved in underage sex and drinking aged 13/14 despite living in a provincial town. By their own admission they were more vigilant in London about friendship groups, parties and knowing where they were.

I do understand people moving out of London for many reasons but try to separate out anxiety about crime from actual crime rates.

Yeah we did the same. We were born and bred in South London but there was no way we were going to bring up children in London as how it is now is absolutely nothing like it was when I was a child.
The place is unrecognisable now and I am not even that old.

This is interesting to me, I live in what's considered a not great area of Liverpool. While I'm not going to go out without locking my doors, no I'm not worried about violent crime, I'm not worried about burglary, and although I have two (soon to be three) boys in secondary, I'm totally comfortable with them walking to school.

If you don't feel safe, then I'm not sure what could change that other than moving.

Exactly this! I grew up in one of those listed and remember my sister being mugged for her phone when she was about 13. I've never experienced that in the 10 years I've lived in London. I never felt safe walking anywhere in the dark in my hometown as it was always so quiet and isolating and I felt that I could easily have been attacked. In London I have much less fear of that as it's so busy and lively, even at night.

I have lived east london and currently SE London and generally speaking always felt safe from gangs etc as they arent looking for me, they are looking for other young men that look like them. But I have been sexually assaulted three times on public transport.
Last night walking home with my daughter from nursery, dodging the broken glass on the ground, the visible gobs of spit, I walked past two blokes carrying rusty screwdrivers obviously looking for someone. Two teenager boys were stabbed to death in our area and we frequently have the police helicopters out over the estates nearby.
And all this for £1800 a month min for a standard two up two down?

We are not staying, and I have lived in London for close to 15 years.

I know it doesnt exist in a bubble and crime is everywhere, but I am hitting my limit.

You’re proving ifailed’s point there!

Everything depends on the particular area within any of those massive regions, London included. It’s just as silly to make sweeping statements about London as it is about the West Midlands.

@TallulahBetty and London is a very big place - yet people are quick to tarnish it as entirely unsafe. The statistics are based on crime per population.

It depends where you are and who your childrens' friends are likely to be. We lived in a nice road in SW London. Very safe and with fabulous neighbours. DC could have knocked on any door for help as they got older. I had no qualms about leaving them all day once they were 12/13 or about them getting the bus to friends' or sports clubs/other activities - alone or with a friend.

However within a short distance I know of people living on estates rife with knife and drug crime. They had a very different view.

London has fabulous opportunities if one can access them safely. My DC also grew up street wise and were confident on the tube from about 12.

It really doesn’t. Shropshire is a whole other county.

Interesting. Can you tell me your source please ?

I’ve lived in London my entire life (45 years). I’m bringing up teens here.

I’ve never been mugged or assaulted or anything like that.

I worry about my teens like anyone would, but I’d worry about them wherever we lived. At least in London they can get around easily on public transport and most streets are well lit. They also learn to keep their wit’s about them early on in life.

The main crime in my area (zone 4 suburb of London) is car theft!

I lived in London for 2 years in the 80s. I was alone in a tube carriage with a man holding a knife while wanking and staring at me.

Mugged and arm broken .
Flashed at a bus stop
Flat mate sexually assaulted.

Lived in Finchley Road at the time.
Moved to rural East Sussex. 7 kids 2 husbands later . We have never suffered, committed or know anyone suffer a violent crime against them.

Everyone is shaped by their own experiences. Nothing would induce me to live in a town let alone London whilst others would be utterly terrified to live in acres of isolation.

London born and bred.

Lived in South East London for 23 years, two kids at state schools. Never had a single problem. Lovely community and we're in what used to be classed as a rough area.

My OH born near Stratford on Avon, went to school in Evesham and says it was god awful. Muggings, drugs, vandalism, beatings.

It's all conjecture and sweeping statements. Live where you feel safe, asking other people's opinions is pointless.

Interesting. Can you tell me your source please ?

www.churchillsupportservices.com/resources/news-insights/most-dangerous-areas-in-england-and-wales-2022/

I've lived in London for 54 years nearly. Apart from 3 years at uni. I've never been burgled or mugged. Tourists are more of a target for pickpockets than we are. We're very central (zone 1) and very close to tube station, bus stops etc. I feel less worried about my teens travelling home at night round here than I would if we lived somewhere more remote or less well connected by busy public transport and they love the freedom and independence they have compared to cousins and friends who live more rurally. I'm glad we stayed here - there's so much to do, we don't need to drive anywhere, but then I'm definitely a city person. I love it here.

😂