Why do some women do this?

[PipinwasAuntieMabelsdog]

I am a university academic and work with a woman who, despite having a PhD which would suggest that she is both intelligent and capable, does and gets away with the helpless girly girl thing. She's all giggly and flirty and will do the crying and protect me routine to get people men in the department to do things she does not want to do. I've worked with her a few years and thought her a little bit annoying. However, this week I have being doing some KIT days to get ready to return to work after Mat leave with DC 2 and I have felt really annoyed with her behaviour. Does she not realise that she is setting other women back?! I have autism, I struggle to do things, but I mask at work and I am damn proud of my PhD and being able to look after myself, yet she seems to relish being seen as vulnerable... I suppose I just want to see if other's have experienced similar and if anyone would admit to behaving like this, why?

Absolutely, I knew this would be a response but thought I would answer as OP asked. I say this as this is what I'm told, but of course fair point, and I'm OK with that. I'm good at my job, in a senior position and earn well 🤷‍♀️ I also get referrals, have been head-hunted, and have a good reputation so I must be doing something right ... I'm more than 'just a pretty face'. Well I better be, I'm over 40 now so I need something to fall back on! 😀

I work in a university too.I am struggling to think of anyone who behaves in this way tbh. A lot of the prof services and academics I work with are smart self sufficient and dare I say very capable.

Irritating. You want to say to them 'do you not realise you are doing a serious disservice to all women here'.

I know not the answer. But I like GarlicGrace's suggestion. Maybe just once, an 'overdone concern' might give you some satisfaction.

I also dislike this but I think it often stems from childhood and how people found a way to navigate the world when they were children; when they can’t then drop this as adults it may be that it was a trauma response and the way they learnt to survive. Like the adult man who is still the angry little boy

It’s learned behaviour but it’s not necessarily in relation to abuse, simply to perceived advantage.

I have a female relation who does this - she has an Oxbridge double first, followed by a very successful magic circle legal career. Super bright and yet simpery, coy and flirty around men when it suits. It was actually a gay male friend of mine who called it first when we were young - how annoying he found it because it was so faux. Even my parents notice it and comment how peculiar it was.

Well she has learnt that this behaviour gets her what she wants....

I work in financial technology. Anyone who did the kind of things described here wouldn't survive. Competence and control, or at least the appearance of competence and control, are basic expectations. Being perceived as helpless, a liability, or making work for others would get you counselled and, if it continued, fired. And I can't imagine a male colleague or client welcoming it - maybe at after work drinks or something, but not actually at work.

I'm in the US, though, so may be a cultural difference. (Also easier to fire underperformers, of course.)

Most women I know would be very embarrassed about losing control in a professional setting. I agree. There's such a strong taboo against crying at work that I assume anyone who does is fighting against it but loses control. I've had women colleagues who cry relatively easily and are very embarrassed about it - ditto blushing.

Academic intelligence is different to emotional intelligence or common sense for example, you can be exceptionally bright in some things but clueless in others.

When I first read from someone on MN that doing that annoying cutesy baby voice indicates possible childhood trauma (I can't remember whether the poster specifically said childhood abuse or not) I felt a lot more compassion towards women who did this. Some situations seem to make us regress into weird dynamics from childhood like at the dentist for example or in front of a teacher or a boss.
Some women fear and look up to men and see them as protectors or abusers.
I think they do it because they have some psychological trauma or issue. It's not about their intelligence.

This woman would’ve been training for this manipulative role all her life. She’d have realised from quite young how she can manipulate people, when seen as the most vulnerable. She’ll not stop. She’ll use use it to go as high as possible

They do it because it works.

Women want equality but then don't want to do things seen as manly. Example putting the bins out, doing DIY, taking the car to the garage etc.

I (female) grew up with my mum and brother. My mum just got on with jobs that needed doing and as a result so do I.

No - some women want equality and sone of those also don't want to put the bins out

And actually it's almost understandable

You have been trained in a certain way since birth and it's hard to throw off that training and its limitations even if you want to. I struggle with fear - girls are taught from birth to "be careful " when baby boys are left to clamber

Although the giggling and such would drive me mad

On the other hand I have been known to pull the dippy woman routine when a bloke was refusing to reverse to the passing place that was much closer than the nearest one behind me

It's her personality, how is yours more valid or better? I'd examine your own sexism in labelling her as giggly and girly. Demonstrating vulnerability can just be emotional intelligence or working smart. Whereas pretending you can do everything can mean you end up doing just that - everything.

Really? What would you think of a “giggly” “vulnerable” doctor in A&E.

Depends on the situation or how it presented themselves. But as she doesn't work in A&E it's a total straw man.

Personally I really appreciated a A&E consultant who took us aside and told us my dad was dying and there wasn't much they could do for him and showed emotional vulnerability with tears in her eyes. Or the ones that did show humour appropriately. Some doctors who are no doubt know their stuff almost seem robotic in how they go about it. It takes all sorts.

@Catspyjamas17 I don't think it's personality. I think it's a tactic.

It's how different women deal with patriarchy.

What's the difference between an unconscious tactic and personality?

A tactic is not unconscious

How would you know? I think a lot of "personality" is learned behaviour and not innate and certainly not objective. I'm not sure I could confidently say every time when someone else is doing something consciously and deliberately. It's very subjective as you are just interpreting behaviour through your own particular experience.

I remember being accused of being flirty and giggly when I was younger (perhaps people find me so now in my 40s) but it was not a tactic or deliberate it was just who I was, and they were seeing me through their own rather sexist/internalised misogyny perspective. One person's flirting is another person's just talking to someone and getting on with them.

@Whenharrymetsmelly I see what you're saying but is that your natural personality or are you fake? Don't underestimate peoples ability to see through BS, especially if it's constant. It might be helping you further yourself but at what cost? I don't know, I just like to have my integrity in tact and faux brown nosing/charming the pants off everyone for personal gain isn't a good look IMO.
My Sister has admitted she's like this at work and I know others who are the same in everyday life to get what they want and curry favour with everyone. Anyone with a strong sense of self will see through it. You give off a slight air of arrogance. Sorry if I sound mean and you might not care.i I'm just pointing it out as I guess this sort of thing annoys me IRL.

I know exactly what you mean by this and you may think that it is helping you on your successful career path but trust me, the men are only indulging you because it strokes their egos and behind your back It’s unlikely they respect you in the least.

Your behaviour feeds into the experience that other women potentially have to put up with being on the receiving end of inappropriate behaviour from males who see this as acceptable when a woman does business with them.

IMHO the only men appropriate for flirting with in a business situation are the ones who control the parking spaces.

To @Whenharrymetsmelly

I agree with @HeadNorth . @Whenharrymetsmelly why would you need to flirt in your job? I'd bet money that people perceive you in a different light, don't underestimate people

Some of us grew up when the world was so sexist that it became deeply ingrained that women, however successful, still had their appearance appraised as a deciding factor in their worth; I think it is very often still the case.
Also if a girl's carers reward her for her looks more powerfully than fir her achievements - she is going to potentially trade on her training when young. Seeking approval through being pleasing to the eye.
It's harsh to blame an individual for such a massive cultural, social, familial force.
My dad was so cute I battled with myself all the time to not express my love based on how sweet she looked. Remembering to praise effort is hard when a child is batting in eyelids at you like Boo from Monsters inc.