Ulez expansion - live within new zone, do i need new car then?

[Redditchat]

Just that. I live in the expansion zone, car is diesel, need to drive it daily for school & work but have zero money to buy a new one.

Has something been announced for people like me?

Also i don't qualify for low income, im just above it but still stretched.

I dont live in London anymore and drive because public transport is not sufficient or usable here. So no, Im not laughing about the distance from houses to the nearest train station because I know that people need to drive to travel around

And its far too simplistic to think that people have a huge choice about where to live and then where to work and send their kids to school. People get jobs where they can, they are allocated schools not of their choice.

The problem with being completely anti car in a wider outer city area, it forgets that people have to live, work and have leisure, its part of living to be able to travel independently.

You are better off moving further in to London so you can be on a tube line so you don't have to rely on trains.

Yes, it’s factored in but it doesn’t mean it’s not a struggle and it doesn’t mean that people factored in the ULEZ zone. Many of those people don’t even travel to London, they just need to enter and leave the very outskirts of the zone. We wouldn't live in a village if we couldn’t drive. We know that we can drive to a train station if needs be, with the current situation though we can’t even consider buying a new car

Not everyone in the ULEZ zone lives in central London with great public transport. We live in the suburbs and the boundary is right by our local hospital.

The tube is great for getting into central London but the buses are almost non-existent. You simply couldn't get from A to B by public transport. So we face buying a new car or paying £12.50 every time we cross into the ULEZ. I wouldn't want to own a shop just inside the zone either as they're going to lose a lot of custom in the short to medium term at least.

Hi @Redditchat same as me. We had a loan from the bank which was supposed to be used on home improvements but I didn't want to pay £12.50 a day. I don't understand when people say get public transport it's laughable. How do I drop my kids to school (not every bloody school is walking distance as most posters who walk to school ALWAYS suggest) and then get to work all before 9am? If you are not in the same position you will never know! I ended up getting a trade in price for my 2014 diesel at a local garage which really helped and got an older petrol car as a pp suggested so only had to use a little bit of the loan. Hope you get sorted it's a nightmare ! I don't get it also when they say change your car because of the problem with pollution but then it's ok to pay the charge and carry on polluting ?

It would be good if it stopped people from using cars without thought. A chap on the local fb group wanted to know how they would monitor the ULEZ when he nips to the shop at the end of his road in his car.
Cars make people lazy.
I do not drive, do not have a car, and yet I manage just fine to utilise public transport and walking to get where I need to go for nursery runs, activities and getting to work.
A car in a city is a privilege.

What does your 3.5 mile on rural unlit roads have to do with being 1.5 miles from a tube station with option of buses?

Surely the amount of car sales due to current cars being non-compliant must surely outweigh the benefits to the emissions? Watching London news, there was a piece on residents being unable to open their windows for 2 years due to re-routing of cars which are being pushed away from the centre and traffic massively expanding to suburbs.

I think majority of us care about reducing pollution and having cleaner air. Be hard pushed to think otherwise.

What the issue is that the new areas being covered lack the level of public transport that central London has. Especially South London where there are barely any tubes from zone 4 onwards.

This expansion is different others in that the cost of second hand cars has gone up significantly due to the pandemic restricting the production of new cars, so people have bought second hand cars because they cannot wait 1-2yrs for a new car.

Then you have the cost of living and inflation increasing all others costs that reduce what you can save

So only giving people a year to save up isn't achievable for a lot of people.

Yes there is a scrappage scheme its not as generous as the last one and only for those in receipt of benefits.

Why couldn't the Mayor recognise these special economical factors and roll out ulez but with an exception or 90% for residents for one additional year to enable them to save more. Or just give people 2 yrs warning.

I am fortunate enough I had money to change my car and bought a second hand car one as soon as it was announced because prices will only go up and they already are. If I was to try and buy the same car now its already £2k more.

But this is the hidden goal really, to price people off the roads.

OP: you've not been back to the thread.

Have you checked your car is definitely non-compliant?

tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/check-your-vehicle/

Because it's only certain older diesel vehicles that are subject to the charge, not all diesel

We live well outside the zone but my infirm 94 year old mother in law lives two miles inside it. A car is essential to collect her to bring her for a meal at our house once a week and for all the visits my husband has to make at other times when she phones in a panic because something in the house is not working properly (often user error!) or he has to take her to an appointment.

We are pensioners ourselves and cannot afford to change a low mileage, well maintained diesel car, apart from the environmental impact of a new car. The charge will cause us considerable hardship but there is no option.

Whilst I support the need for cleaner air there is a significant difference between very old polluting cars and vans driving around all day, and people like us and those who live outside the area but need to make a single trip of a mile or so into it once a day to work.

Luckily our car is compliant, we live in zone 4 and don't drive to work as we have excellent public transport. Tube, buses and overground but I do need the car to ferry two kids to football at weekends and shopping. We also have a dog and have family in NI where we couldn't fly with dog so drive.

However my neighbours are the laziest of all, they have two cars and their kids don't walk anywhere. They went to the same primary school as mine and it's an 8 minute walk just over a mile, parking horrendous, we always walked they drove every day. Their kids are no in two different secondary schools now and one parent drives one and the other drives the other one even though there is a frequent bus route that could take them. Bizarre

It takes me half hour at least to walk a mile. How do you manage it in 8 minutes?

Average walking speed is 3 miles per hour - so a mile in 20 minutes. Not sure how anyone could do more than a mile in 8 mins - not walking anyway.

Over a mile in 8 minutes with children, have you got go faster stripes or something 🤣

I thought it was 4mph, so a mile takes 15 mins.

A mile really isn't that far to walk.

the point of the long notice period is to allow people to make changes.

yes some people have chosen a combination of work, home, school and leisure locations that are impossible to get between in a reasonable amount of time without a car. this situation was the result of choices made which didn't take the environmental impact into account. when that is factored in through a charge, different decisions will hopefully become more attractive. so there are months and months available in which to sit down and plan properly for your individual circumstances - changing job, moving house, getting together with the local community to demand a new bus route, joining a car club for the occasional ikea trips, lots of other options not all of which are feasible for every situation but with proper thought and planning some alternatives should be possible.

this isn't supposed to be a money-making exercise primarily. the purpose is to reduce the number of polluting car journeys. buying a new car shouldn't be the default response, but the last-ditch outcome for the rare situations when there despite all these changes there's still a genuine need.

@Lockheart

NHS says a brisk walk is around 3mph. Can't imagine primary school children doing it any faster. I agree it's not far.

www.nhs.uk/live-well/exercise/running-and-aerobic-exercises/walking-for-health/

I think this will be the end for Sadie Khan, what with this than putting up the GLA authority council tax contribution by 100% since he started, enough is enough.

The irony being it was happening already, people in the expanded zone were already replacing as and when they could/ needed because they would occasionally go into the existing zone, plus we are better educated about the affects.

it has sped it up, to a point the market cannot cope with.

It seems you can still pollute london if you are rich enough to do so.

I agree. I think it could be an issue for Labour though.

that said, I’d imagine the next mayor will be unlikely to remove it due to the obscene amount it will bring in

Public transport is very rarely accessible, no one should be forced to use it or face paying £12.50 every day

What sort of ignorant privileged position are you in to think that people have all the choice in the world about where they live, work and send children to school?

People buy or rent whats available and what they can afford. People have schools allocated to their children. They have jobs where they are successful applicants and where they can get a job.

Pure ignorance, Im embarrassed for you.

Maybe the total 60 minute walking after an 8 hour working day plus commute means for her leaving at 6.39 am and getting home at 7.30 pm a pretty long exhausting day....before cooking eating and living. That extra time is precious

How can the whole of outer London move in there is already a massive shortage not to mention to buy a house flat or room you need to be on a massive salary....I'm outer london my son couldn't even live here he had to move 40 minutes further out he starts at 6 am and works to 6pm leaving at 5am and home at 7.30pm after his children are in bed