Page 3 | Ulez expansion - live within new zone, do i need new car then?

Redditchat · 2023-02-14T22:33:20+00:00

Just that. I live in the expansion zone, car is diesel, need to drive it daily for school & work but have zero money to buy a new one. Has something been announced for people like me? Also i don't qualify for low income, im just above it but still stretched.

jannier · 15/02/2023 09:04

QueenofFox · 15/02/2023 07:43

Why can’t the weekly shop be online? We scrapped our car and use zip car or a longer term rental company for trips to the south west. It works out cheaper than buying a new car.

I guess you support the closure of shops, further decline of the high street, isolation of people stuck indoors 24 hours for something not even shown to effect air quality in outer london

SnowAndFrostOutside · 15/02/2023 09:06

how relatively poorly served for public transport a lot of the Greater London fringes are (although don't say that to a resident of Northumberland unless you want to be judged severely).

I'm surprised the OP old car doesn't pass the requirement that's why I came on this thread. Diesel isn't automatic no.

Anyway, I'm in Hampshire and I have to laugh at the idea that a 20min walk to a bus stop and 30min frequency is bad. We are over an hour walk to the main bus route and I believe the bus is every 20min. And there is only one bus going between the two cities around here. The only bus near our street is the school busses that picks up and drops off at the secondary schools and 6th form colleges. They do one in the morning to the schools and one coming back in the afternoon from the school.

There are no zip cars unless you go to the city.

Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious · 15/02/2023 09:06

My DS has football matches all over Surrey at the weekends. We are allowed hobbies and interests outside of the charging zone!

Mine too, and tournament's that last all day during the summer. Which can be up to 90 minute drive away. Thankfully my car is fine and I don't have to change it, but I certainly wouldn't get rid of having a car. Just because I'm in London doesn't mean I shouldn't have a car if I want and need.

SlipSlidinAway · 15/02/2023 09:08

userno777 · 14/02/2023 23:09

Hardly anyone within Greater London actually NEEDS a car. Public transport is great.

Such ignorance

Bear2014 · 15/02/2023 09:10

I might be wrong but isn't there going to be some kind of payout to get people to scrap their old car, in the region of £2k?

We live just inside South Circular in the original zone. We don't use our car much, once a week for football coaching as the car is full of equipment and about twice a month for other reasons. We just kept our car and pay it as and when. Through trial and error we discovered that a lot of very local journeys don't trigger a charge, it's not as sophisticated as you get charged just for moving your car.

We'll replace the car when prices of second hand hybrid models comes down a bit.

Optionally · 15/02/2023 09:12

For those saying use a zip car - have you tried getting one on a Sunday morning recently? At short notice (we find out where and when matches are on the preceding Wednesday)? And then had to work out how late it is likely to start, how much margin to leave for that so how long to book for, also factoring in traffic. It’s not a simple, easy or faff free solution, and it means every week you risk not being able to DC to a match and letting the team down.

Fizbosshoes · 15/02/2023 09:12

For those saying you don't need a car in London. The Ulez expansion covers a massive area. I used to live in zone 5 - within 1 mile of my house there were probably 4 tube stations and 2 mainline stations plus the bus station, so very well served with (frequently running) public transport.
A relative lives in zone 4 - so nearer to London- but it's over 1.5 miles to any rail or tube station. The only public transport is buses. Their neighbours is a taxi driver, so he obviously needs a car. The relative is retired and thinks it's great but he has plenty of time to get from a to b.

Fizbosshoes · 15/02/2023 09:15

I might be wrong but isn't there going to be some kind of payout to get people to scrap their old car, in the region of £2k?

There is a scrappage scheme available to people in receipt of certain benefits. ...but when buying a car 2k is not going to stretch very far....

reluctantbrit · 15/02/2023 09:16

We bit the bullet and bought a new (to us) car. Most of our friends decided to do the same if the car was not ULEZ friendly.

I prefer to do my own shopping, love to drive out on a weekend and I am not a confident driver, I would be even more nervous using a rental or zip car for any trips. DD also does two activities where she has to be picked up at 9.15pm and no way I walk in the dark or take three busses to do so.

I think it can't be good for the high streets if everyone suddenly just buys online, even more than today already.

I do have plenty of public transport but it's quite expensive in my opinion for 3 people and it can be a pain to juggle connections and timing taking 1 hour if I have to go somewhere where I drive in 20 minutes.

Whatafool123 · 15/02/2023 09:18

userno777 · 14/02/2023 23:09

Hardly anyone within Greater London actually NEEDS a car. Public transport is great.

Seriously? It may depend on where you are, but where we are it is easy and quick to get in and out of central London but getting around London is a massive schlep. Also, if you want to go away at weekends or transport your kids places, I'm sorry, but not having a car is really not an option for everyone.

HavfrueDenizKisi · 15/02/2023 09:18

As far as understand, the current ULEZ has not lead to a decrease in pollutants/particulates so I'm at a loss as to why it's been aggressively pushed. As usual, it's been extremely poorly thought through (typical politicians working on election pledges) with little understanding of the wider impacts; especially for lower income people.

Many outer London borough councils are against this for all the reasons mentioned above. Zone 5/6 goes out quite far and public transport isn't this amazing magical solution many people on this thread seem to think it is. Clearly they have zero experience of Greater London. Zones 1/2/3 much much easier to live comfortably without a car. Further out, not so much. Plus all those who live outside the zone but regularly drive in just over the border for work or appointments etc.

Plus all the ambulance/healthcare/fire service etc people who have to drive in for shifts and don't live in London.

I could go on. It's a policy with no forethought into its impacts. Like most policies.

caringcarer · 15/02/2023 09:19

I live just outside Birmingham. Once clean air zone came in I had to pay £8 per day to get to work and still pay for parking. I've changed my diesel for newer but still 6 years old petrol with higher milage to avoid CAZ charges.

Bear2014 · 15/02/2023 09:20

@Fizbosshoes ah right, thought it was too good to be true.

bellac11 · 15/02/2023 09:21

jannier · 15/02/2023 09:04

I guess you support the closure of shops, further decline of the high street, isolation of people stuck indoors 24 hours for something not even shown to effect air quality in outer london

Show quote history

Also Aldi and Lidl dont deliver, forcing people to use more expensive supermarkets.

And forget people who get their shopping at ethnic stores or markets where there is also no home delivery

Whatafool123 · 15/02/2023 09:22

We changed our car to a ULEZ friendly one when the expansion to the south circular came in. We were lucky in that our car was playing up anyway because if it hadn't been, I would have felt exactly like you.

Of course, as with everything, it is the less well off who suffer. Some people are reliant on their cars for transport to work outside public transport times, eg. shift workers, office cleaners etc. I don't think there are grants available unless you actually use your vehicle for work, like a builder or plumber, for example, so it is a massive expense for those people.

Whatafool123 · 15/02/2023 09:24

reluctantbrit · 15/02/2023 09:16

We bit the bullet and bought a new (to us) car. Most of our friends decided to do the same if the car was not ULEZ friendly.

I prefer to do my own shopping, love to drive out on a weekend and I am not a confident driver, I would be even more nervous using a rental or zip car for any trips. DD also does two activities where she has to be picked up at 9.15pm and no way I walk in the dark or take three busses to do so.

I think it can't be good for the high streets if everyone suddenly just buys online, even more than today already.

I do have plenty of public transport but it's quite expensive in my opinion for 3 people and it can be a pain to juggle connections and timing taking 1 hour if I have to go somewhere where I drive in 20 minutes.

Exactly this.

kirinm · 15/02/2023 09:27

We are zone 2 so were part of the first ULEZ expansion. We were occasionally driving a 20 year old diesel car. We bought a new car and yes, they were extremely expensive since everyone else was trying to do the same thing.

I'm pretty sure there was some help announced but you'll need to check. Not all diesel cars are hit by the charges.

kirinm · 15/02/2023 09:28

HavfrueDenizKisi · 15/02/2023 09:18

As far as understand, the current ULEZ has not lead to a decrease in pollutants/particulates so I'm at a loss as to why it's been aggressively pushed. As usual, it's been extremely poorly thought through (typical politicians working on election pledges) with little understanding of the wider impacts; especially for lower income people.

Many outer London borough councils are against this for all the reasons mentioned above. Zone 5/6 goes out quite far and public transport isn't this amazing magical solution many people on this thread seem to think it is. Clearly they have zero experience of Greater London. Zones 1/2/3 much much easier to live comfortably without a car. Further out, not so much. Plus all those who live outside the zone but regularly drive in just over the border for work or appointments etc.

Plus all the ambulance/healthcare/fire service etc people who have to drive in for shifts and don't live in London.

I could go on. It's a policy with no forethought into its impacts. Like most policies.

There was an announcement last week (I think) that there has been a reduction.

EyesOnThePies · 15/02/2023 09:31

I think it is shocking that this will be brought in to cover what are more suburban areas with so little notice.

Had there been a lead in which matched a more normal timescale for replacing a car it would have been fairer.

Presumably diesel cars in good Nick could be better sold in regions where there is no ULEZ type restriction? But that’s so dishonest of gvt, just pushing the emissions elsewhere, or requiring the scrapping of a resource rich working vehicle.

jannier · 15/02/2023 09:32

SnowAndFrostOutside · 15/02/2023 09:06

how relatively poorly served for public transport a lot of the Greater London fringes are (although don't say that to a resident of Northumberland unless you want to be judged severely).

I'm surprised the OP old car doesn't pass the requirement that's why I came on this thread. Diesel isn't automatic no.

Anyway, I'm in Hampshire and I have to laugh at the idea that a 20min walk to a bus stop and 30min frequency is bad. We are over an hour walk to the main bus route and I believe the bus is every 20min. And there is only one bus going between the two cities around here. The only bus near our street is the school busses that picks up and drops off at the secondary schools and 6th form colleges. They do one in the morning to the schools and one coming back in the afternoon from the school.

There are no zip cars unless you go to the city.

I think a main difference is you knew the transport issue from day 1 so when applying for jobs and schools would have considered how you were going to do it (I assume school buses are possible in some areas) but when you know you can easily get to work in your next town in a 40 minute journey to have it extended both in time by more than 3 times each way and money is hard. My daughter is faced with this she either pays £100 a week or will pay the Ulez of £12.50 a day at the moment she spends £30 on petrol.

HavfrueDenizKisi · 15/02/2023 09:33

@kirinm that is actually being strongly disputed. The mayor of London has been accused of manipulating figures.

See screenshot.

Ulez expansion - live within new zone, do i need new car then?

Greblegable · 15/02/2023 09:34

Fizbosshoes · 15/02/2023 09:12

For those saying you don't need a car in London. The Ulez expansion covers a massive area. I used to live in zone 5 - within 1 mile of my house there were probably 4 tube stations and 2 mainline stations plus the bus station, so very well served with (frequently running) public transport.
A relative lives in zone 4 - so nearer to London- but it's over 1.5 miles to any rail or tube station. The only public transport is buses. Their neighbours is a taxi driver, so he obviously needs a car. The relative is retired and thinks it's great but he has plenty of time to get from a to b.

I am laughing at the idea of a 1.5 mile walk to tube station being considered a bad level of public transport.

QuietlyConfident · 15/02/2023 09:36

Whatafool123 · 15/02/2023 09:22

We changed our car to a ULEZ friendly one when the expansion to the south circular came in. We were lucky in that our car was playing up anyway because if it hadn't been, I would have felt exactly like you.

Of course, as with everything, it is the less well off who suffer. Some people are reliant on their cars for transport to work outside public transport times, eg. shift workers, office cleaners etc. I don't think there are grants available unless you actually use your vehicle for work, like a builder or plumber, for example, so it is a massive expense for those people.

That last bit's not true I think. According to this, if I'm reading it right, you can get scrappage of 2,000 for a car if you're on UC: which would go quite a long way towards a second hand petrol car, even now.

QuietlyConfident · 15/02/2023 09:36

Oops, forgot the link.
tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/scrappage-schemes/car-and-motorcycle

jannier · 15/02/2023 09:36

Whatafool123 · 15/02/2023 09:22

We changed our car to a ULEZ friendly one when the expansion to the south circular came in. We were lucky in that our car was playing up anyway because if it hadn't been, I would have felt exactly like you.

Of course, as with everything, it is the less well off who suffer. Some people are reliant on their cars for transport to work outside public transport times, eg. shift workers, office cleaners etc. I don't think there are grants available unless you actually use your vehicle for work, like a builder or plumber, for example, so it is a massive expense for those people.

The grant is so small you have to have more than most peoples budget to pay for a new car