Ulez expansion - live within new zone, do i need new car then?

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Just that. I live in the expansion zone, car is diesel, need to drive it daily for school & work but have zero money to buy a new one.

Has something been announced for people like me?

Also i don't qualify for low income, im just above it but still stretched.

I can see a lot of suicides as a result of this. Especially for the tradesman side. Don’t forget it will affect many who live in bordering places, who won’t be eligible for the 2k. There are not enough ulez vans for sale to replace the ones in the zone. That’s before you need to look at size and spec. the jump in price is astronomical for the vans due to the combination of microchip issue stunting new supply and the young age of what qualifies.

Sorry op yes you’re going to need to replace your car or swallow the 12.50. I would advise doing it sooner rather than later, although there’s push back Kahn’s rolled out adverts, cameras are going on traffic lights instead of council ones. Some people are waiting in the hope it will get pushed back, I think come July /august prices of ulez cars are going to go even madder and yours will be worth even less (so cost to change greater). There are some odd balls out there like some mini diesels are ulez despite their age and plenty of older petrol stuff is ok - but none of them are cheap as many are in the same boat. I am sorry. It’s shit. The market is mad now, with cars 3 years ago worth £500 now worth 2k. Everyone was pushed into diesels due to the nox values and £30 taxes. It’s an utter shit show.

fundamentally I agree with it, but not the timing or implementation.

That’s just not true. I’d be utterly screwed without a car. For the short stints I’ve had where I was without a car I wasn’t able to keep up with anything on time, dragging a baby and a school age child out in all weathers and holding down a full time job. Cost me a fortune in buses, trains and Ubers.

If your on UC you don't have the spare that isn't covered....I've been quoted £350 for my galaxy I need 7 sears nothing available under £4k for a not great model, petrol much more costly to run higher road tax too....and I don't have £3k even if I was eligible which I'm not. My disabled sister is in the same boat she needs her allowance to put petrol in. If she uses it to put towards a car even with the scrappage she would be short £1k on the new vehicle she could get them couldn't fuel it.

Is that specifically Bromley challenging the stats or are more boroughs challenging? (I don't have time to search for that article).

Also with regard to Londoners needing a car, even the mayor's London Plan acknowledges cars are required in some areas.

Oh I see Bromley hasn't even been affected but started challenging it a while ago. There are articles going back 8 months in which they are saying it shouldn't be extended.

And it doesnt just affect people who live and work in the zone, my parents changed their car in order for it to be compliant (they had an old petrol car, nothing wrong with it either but just very old), but I have to make sure my car is compliant to come and support their care needs. I live 80 miles away now

Public transport is spotty and has great variability in its service. Inner London bodies and zone 3-4 generally have great public transport. However some areas in the ulez zone have buses less than every hour and need a bus to get a station. I was at one yesterday.

The nearest zip car to me is a 20-30 minute walk and the area is not bikeable.

If you live in one outer London borough and need to commute to get to another then you are doubling or tripling your journey time without a car.

I’m quite anti-car and would support this if it had been done with increased public transport to underserved areas and more bike infrastructure. I’d like to see more one way streets and more streets open to only bikes and pedestrians.

@kirinm it's a joint action by four london boroughs. Bromley, Bexley, Hillingdon and Harrow.

I don't live there now but I would resent having this forced upon me.

Great, if public transport works for some who live there. For many, a car is essential. Not everything in life is done within the radius of convenient public transport and I wouldn't be able to suddenly pay a charge for an older car that I can't afford to replace.

We also have family in other parts of the country - are people actually suggesting the public transport around the country is fit for purpose when you want to, gasp, leave London?

Thank God we left London a few years ago.

@Greblegable a 3 mile round walk added to a commute is not doable or enjoyable for everyone. I used to do it but my husband would have to pick me up on dark evenings at 7pm as I didn't really want to walk nearly 2 miles home in the dark on my own. There wasn't a bus stop near our house, zone 4. Not sure what I'd do now in that situation.

And 3 other Tory led councils are challenging it. I don't know how true what they are saying is but you can certainly accept that they may not be doing it in good faith.

I think for a lot of people it would be a time constraint. I would imagine (but being MN along will come 100 people to say they commute 4hrs each way including an hour walk) most commutes are 1-2 hrs. To have 30 min walk before you even wait for, or board a train might not be feasible to tie in with nursery or school drop offs, and het to work on time. If you worked shifts would you want to walk half an hour to or from the tube at 2 or 3am (if the tube even ran at that time?)

My dad has weekly appointments at Kings hospital. He lives in Bromley borough. Luckily my brothers car is a 57 plate so compliant... but due to how relatively infrequently the car is used, its actually got a very low milage on it. (The car is used a lot more now with numerous medical appointments at various hospitals)

Growing up... no we didn't need a car. But public transport at the edges isn't as good now (and I say that as a Yorkshire resident with rubbish public transport). My parents can no longer walk the mile to the train station (and the half mile to the nearest bus stop is a struggle sometimes). There was 5 buses an hour when I was young, now there's two.

Thats before you get as far out as Biggin Hill for example!

How do you know what people NEED?

Ridiculous. Public transport is far from great. Its sometimes convenient to use it to get to and from work, or to nip in and out of town for a drink, but that's about it.

We actually have a compliant car which is relatively new so I have no skin in the game here. I just think it's poorly thought through.

I'm all for much better public transport and reduced reliance on cars though.

I agree that the timeframe is too quick. When it was expanded last year (?) we'd had several years warning.

Of course it's split on political lines. The sections quoted though are from research undertaken by Imperial College on the original ULEZ zone and it's impacts. So impartial.

Also I'm sure labour councils are being told to toe the line.

I’m in a ULEZ zone and got a hybrid car (brand new on a deal) when it came out. It took a bit of thinking about though as I do still use a car for some things and public transport is good but not brilliant.

My parents live nearby in a ULEZ and have an old petrol car which they’d thought they’d need to replace but haven’t needed to do so, so far, they would if they needed it. My retired stepdad does get the bus and train to some appointments or to go out but he also uses the car especially for heavy items.

The average commute according to department for transport was 27 minutes in 2021. so no I don’t think adding a 30 minute walk to that compared with cost an expense and pollution of running a car is ridiculous.

Obviously a 1.5 mile walk as part of a commute is is not possible for everyone. Disabled, tradesmen, shift workers, people with kids at three different schools etc etc

But to imply it makes you badly connected to public transport (especially when op mentioned there are buses as well!) is stupid.

And not wanting to do a 30 minute walk at 7pm is a bit precious. Outside obvious exceptions, thinking you need a l a lift for 1.5 mile walk is ridiculous.

no wonder so many people are overweight.

I've just read that some Labour councils are asking for a delay in implementing it although agreeing that it needs to happen. I think that is a fair enough stance to take. As I said below, when it was expanded into my borough we'd had a lot of time to plan (although did actually leave it to the lazy minute) and covid also delayed its implementation.

It is a huge ask to expect people to replace cars in such a short period of time.

Greblegable - 3.5 miles down a dark, narrow country lane with no footpath and no street lighting isn’t exactly the easiest nor the safest route to get to public transport!

When I lived in zone 2 there was a zip car at the end of our road. I've just checked where the nearest one to me is. It's five miles away.

Your commute will take you past where I live. We all have high levels of air pollution here. Lots of people with asthma. Lots of parents doing trips with their kids to A&E. Parents are considering fund raising for air purifiers for our local primary school.

It's a pain in the bum for you. But it's not that bad. Ultimately you're just selling your old car and buying a slightly less old car.

During lockdown we all made sacrifices to protect each other's health. Children were homeschooled, even though children weren't at risk, to protect teachers, the CEV and elderly.

Your commute will take you through places where a sizeable percentage of families don't even have cars, and yet they have high rates of illnesses related to air pollution. You'll be helping them greatly by switching your car.

You need to look at what you need a car for, how frequently - if you only use 1 or 2 days a week you could just pay the charge at first. London is served by better public transportation than most, my friends are planning on leaving their car at her parents outside the zone and taking the bus their or her parents picking them up (compliant car) for the first few months to see if they can ditch their car altogether (plan is to just rent as needed)

A lot of people , presumably outside London are laughing/incredulous that people are complaining about distance from trains or frequency of service.
However if you live in rural areas or areas with poorer public transport, presumably this is already factored into where you choose to live/work, what hours you can commit to, what school (if any choice) your child can get to etc. I live in a commuter town. The train service to London is great, I use it every day. There are buses that run to the immediate towns North or south (but the trains go to the same towns and are cheaper and quicker) I wouldn't consider living here if I didn't drive.
People in London are potentially choosing between paying £60/week extra, buying a newer car or adding a lot of time and inconvenience to their day.