Working from home.

[Sunriseinwonderland]

Its not a criticism but why are so many people still working from home. I genuinely don't know.
Im not in a job that can be done from home so I've had to go in throughout.

Because it costs companies money to put seats on bums
because it works
company bosses also want flexible working to attract the best staff

... I could go on

I would honestly give everything to go back to full time in the office but I didn’t say that - I said people should be encouraged in more. So like 2/3 days a week rather than at home all the time.

Everyone is different and working from home doesn’t suit everyone. I’ve had to accept that my ideal way of working is not going to happen ever again which is v annoying but such is life. I won’t derail the thread by listing all the problems I have with wfh 😂

@Christmascracker0

You haven't told us why people should be encouraged into the office. Just that you think they should.

Yes, also it's odd to state that everyone is different and there's a spectrum when it comes to these things, but then follow it with nonetheless people should be encouraged into the office more.

It’s absolutely fine to say you would prefer to be back in the office full time - it’s a reach though to say that everyone else should be encouraged to do more just because you like working that way, that’s what I’m saying. Unless you’re the boss of course - because if you want all your people around you full time in the office you can tell them that’s what they have to do, and they can choose to stick with you or move to another organisation.

Of course he could. Lots of people live remotely but travel into an office one day a week.

Ok then, the main plus points to being in the office more -

Social interaction is a big one - talking to a screen will never be the same as talking to someone in real life. Humans need face to face interaction.

Office working is better for collaboration, it’s easy to go round and round in circles on video calls but people tend to be more decisive in face to face meetings. I’m not sure why. Much easier to ask ad hoc questions or voice ideas as they occur, say if someone is walking past you or sits round the corner from you.

Not everyone has a good wfh set up. Lots of people (especially young people) are still working in their bedrooms or on their dining room tables. Also not everyone can afford to buy two screens to work off.

Easier to make sure everyone is on the same page/is doing the same thing for certain tasks.

It’s cringey but there’s more of a sense of belonging when everyone is together, it’s so easy to be disconnected to everything at home.

Better learning opportunities for trainees (arguably the most important one for me). There’s so much learning that happens by osmosis in the office that will never happen when wfh. Also easier for a trainee to say “hey can you help with this quick q” in the office, having to do a video call every time you want to ask something can be off putting. Also workplace banter (hate the word) is important for the youngsters in building connections. Much easier for onboarding experienced new starts too.

“Being seen” is important for promotions in a lot of industries. You can have all the feedback channels set up but if you don’t work directly for certain people who decide promotions then getting a promotion can take longer.

Puts distance between home and work life, so you don’t feel like you’re living at work. Able to switch off the laptop at 5.30pm and not open again until the next day. At home it’s easy to think “just one more email” then next thing you know it’s 8pm and you’re still looking at a screen doing silly little emails.

Those are all good reasons why I personally prefer to be in the office half of the time. But I don’t see why I shouldn’t have the opportunity to wfh half of the time too - as I did when I was a young trainee ten years ago too. But I can’t compel others to work as I prefer to work.

I have a hybrid job so I work 2 days a week from the office & the rest from home. My job was advertised as full time hybrid and there is no way I could work full time otherwise. Dh works away most of the week so and I can't afford f/t childcare as my wages will disappear. So for me, this is the only way I can work f/t & contribute to my household & to society via my taxes.

Why the bad attitude? I dont care if you work at home or not.

All I can speak for is myself. I have zero control over how other people work. I would hate to wfh full time or be in the office full time, halfway between the two works well for me, I’m not in a role that’s at risk of being outsourced, I have experience of working in all those ways and fortunately my organisation offers the option that works for me. If it didn’t I would go elsewhere. I’m in an industry that is very much hybrid (and was before the pandemic) and I am a qualified professional with skills that are in demand, so I have that option.

smileladiesplease · Today 15:40
It's shit for cafes and small retailers too who used to rely on footfall

But can completely understand why people do.

Covid has deffo divided us. Middle class can work from home. Working class not so much

i wondered how long before someone mentioned the class system.

Office working is better for collaboration, it’s easy to go round and round in circles on video calls but people tend to be more decisive in face to face meetings. I’m not sure why.

I disagree, we conduct the majority of our meetings on Teams, and decision making is the same in both settings

You mean plus points for you. Pretty much all this list is either completely dependent on circumstances or wrong.

Social interaction- humans don't need to get their face to face interaction from colleagues. I see loads of people face to face every day, it doesn't become less important because they don't have the same employer. Also, remote work means more interaction with more colleagues for some of us.

Office working isn't better for collaboration. That's a your mileage may vary one. Depends on the person, the role, the company, who they'd be collaborating with.

Not everyone has a good wfh setup, but presumably people who don't have that and feel it's important won't need encouraging back to the office anyway? Also, I don't have two screens, I work on the kitchen table and I've been wfh since 2014. Your idea of a good wfh setup isn't shared by everyone.

Easier to make sure everyone is on the same page for certain tasks- some, probably. Irrelevant in other cases. So, not an inherent positive.

Better learning opportunities for trainees- depends on the trainee. More wfh has meant greater opportunity for many young people who are neurodiverse, disabled, have caring responsibilities, chronic illnesses, can't live where the job opportunities are. The 'workplace banter' you think is an advantage has always disadvantaged some people.

Being seen is important for some promotions- probably, but beyond irrelevant for those working in jobs where that isn't the case or they don't want a promotion. So again, not an inherent advantage.

Puts distance between home and work life so people don't feel like they're living at work- only relevant for people who feel they're living at work if they wfh. The one more email thing is completely alien for many of us, and people who are like that can also be like that in an office.

Because I can and my employer lets me but I also had a medical issue last year and I've been advised to only do 3 days a week in the office.

I love the balance of the office and home. I get so much more done at home but love the chat and face to face of being in the office.

It's a common claim, but not true. Call centre staff, for example, frequently work from home now and clearly aren't middle class. Doctors, dentists and teachers can't and they are.

Social interaction - I get plenty of that and see work friends socially. Not everyone relies on work for social interaction and for a lot of people the social interaction side of work is very difficult. It can be so difficult they can’t work in that environment. It’s a benefit to YOU. Not everyone else.

Collaboration - that’s not a fact. That’s your opinion and may be your experience. Not mine. Not everyone’s. I have worked for international companies where teams are split all over the globe. Due to time difference some never spoke in person. Still managed to collaborate. Companies have been doing this for years.

Work set up - yes could be a problem for some. Not all. I don’t mind working in my bedroom at all. I know lots of people that would prefer to wfh, without a dedicated office but are still happier than travelling to work every day. I don’t know anyone who has been forced to pay for equipment they need for their employment. Again, doesn’t impact everyone. So still no reason, that it would benefit everyone to be back in the office. Those that really hate working in the space they have available can find a job that’s not wfh.

Everyone on the same wavelength? Your experience. Not others. If companies are good and communication is good, you don’t need this.

Sense of belonging - It’s actually really easy to not be disconnected when wfh. Infact, my experience is that people are more open and honest during discussions when there’s not an office full of people that could over hear quick discussions between team members.

Training - Again international companies had perfected this before covid. If a company still hasn’t worked out how to ensure their staff are trained, 3 years after the first lockdown, the company is the issue. Company banter, for a lot of people is painful, especially those with ASD. Diagnosed or undiagnosed. It’s not something everyone enjoys or wants.

Being seen - This is important, for companies that refuse to change with the times. Any decent company will have realised years ago, that being seen doesn’t mean you are doing your job.

Being able to disconnect - I don’t know anyone who has this problem. They actually disconnect more. They have no long commute. They switch off at 5pm and then straight downstairs into family life. Rather than getting in at 6-6.30pm (later if traffic is bad) getting home stressed, rushing to put dinner on/ kids activities. They get more family time. Your experience isn’t that.

Your list is a list of reasons that YOU miss the office. So still not answering why you believe other people should be forced to go in more. Unless your reason is ‘I think other people should do as I want them to because it suits me’

My company are saving in excess of £3million a year just in real estate costs globally by having people WFH instead of in an office,

Sick leave has reduced.
internet costs for the company have reduced as everyone bears their own costs at home
Travel/expenses have reduced as Teams is now used the majority of the time and F:F meetings in a physical location are used less frequently but in a more impactful way

We've recruited so much (University Admin) that our large team can't all fit in the office anymore so each small team goes in just 1 day a week. We'll never be fully working on campus again as there just isn't the office space.

@Bellalalala @BashirWithTheGoodBeard

They are all common positives of office working, not just my experiences.

It’s really great that working from home works for you and I honestly mean that. I’m so pleased you’re having a good time. Nobody is taking it away from you so I don’t know why you have to come at me for having a different opinion to you.

I personally do not like working from home full time (for a lot of reasons) and would prefer to be in the office with people at least a few days a week. That’s my opinion, so please please do not minimise it. I have already said I have accepted that what I want isn’t going to happen - I may well have to change career because of it.

Anyway. This isn’t my thread so I’ll stop derailing.

Common, but by no means universal and there's no evidence they're even the experiences of the majority. For that reason, they're not plus points. They're also not a reason to try and encourage people into the office more.

You may not be taking wfh away from me, but I only know that because I don't actually have an office to go to. However, when you talk about wanting people who wfh now to be encouraged to come into the office 3 days a week, actually what you're advocating does potentially take their preferred method of working, being fully home based, away from them. Any of them could be on this thread.

And people pointing out that you should stop universalising your experiences aren't coming at you. There's nothing wrong with you saying you prefer being in the office, but that's not all you've said.

Coming for you for having a difference of opinion?

Thats not what’s happening, is it. I am disagreeing with you. Which people are entitled to do. Especially when your opinion is ‘people should do this because I say it’s best’. Disagreeing with you isn’t coming for you. Countering your points, isn’t coming for you. How did you work out that you can have an opinion on what a huge amount of people should do, but also decide that people disagreeing is ‘coming For’ you?

Theres lots of people who are at a disadvantage in an office environment. Lots of people who don’t see it as an advantage at all. Lots of people who do see some disadvantages but feel their are outweighed by the positives.

Again, no one is minimising anything. But interesting that you choose words that cast you as a victim.

It appears that you meant ‘I wish more people would go back to the office, because I preferred it’. If so, not why you just didn’t say that.

Yeah I actually did say that in the post you quoted.

People definitely are. I have children in primary school and also work from home half the week. When I'm working, they're in after school club but I am one of the only parents that I know that do this. Most pop out at 3pm to do the school run then have them home with them for the afternoon.

That said there are benefits for the employer with staff working from home.

They can recruit from a wider pool of people and get better candidates because it's not dependent upon applicants living close to the office.

Reduced overheads heating and maintaining buildings.

Reduced absenteeism and sickness I'm in two minds about. Certainly there's less spreading of germs if staff are at home compared to the office but there's also a lot of people who have a quieter/slacking off day when they're ill and less visible working from home rather than putting in a proper sick day. But then again there's loads of slacking off that happens in offices so maybe it all balances out!