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The earthquakes in Syria and Turkey.

148 replies

HoldingTheDoor · 06/02/2023 15:20

The horror of it all is unimaginable. The death toll is currently 2,300 and seems to rise almost every time I check the BBC site. The stories and photos are so heartbreaking.

I know this is a pointless post as there's nothing I can do but donate to DEC but I can't look away either.

OP posts:
CoteDAzur · 09/02/2023 08:55

"Some suggestions for those who would like to donate are the Red Cross, the White Helmets and AKUT. Any amount will be helpful."

Red Cross will not be welcome in Muslim countries. Its equivalent in the region is Red Crescent, or KIZILAY in Turkey:

www.kizilay.org.tr

Civil search and rescue group AKUT are brilliant.

www.akut.org.tr/en

Both groups accept donations online.

DomPom47 · 09/02/2023 17:59

Red Cross does work in Muslim countries - there are teams in Turkey at the moment pulling people from the rubble and also offering psychological support to survivors and there families.

Calling myself and another poster Turkish bashers or a similar comment about raising historically accurate facts is just bizarre. We do not hate a country or a people because of events in history we are saying everyone in the country needs help.

Logsandcogs · 09/02/2023 22:35

Dom, please go away. I don't know what you're trying to achieve. In my city, Turks and kurds are working together to collect donations. I see no difference between us. Alevis, well they're both Turks and Kurds, and my personal favourite of Turkish scala of ethnicities. I really think its all to do with incompetence rather than some imaginery division.

DomPom47 · 10/02/2023 00:22

I m been respectful and giving an opinion and not going away. I have not said anything inaccurate. I have family through marriage on the ground and literally under the rubble in Kahramanmaras particularly in the providence of Pazarcik and in Hatay.
I am well aware of the helpfulness of all people on the region of all ethnic and religious groups.
I am also aware of the incompetence and disorganisation of local and central government in Turkey.
What you are however not aware or want ignored is the division of help that is due to political decisions. Me stating my family’s facts is not imaginary. I will call out discrimination where I see it.
I am not bundling all people together I am not spreading hate I am not spreading disinformation I am been open and transparent in my views: I wish literally all people in Turkey well and I wish the government would make the same effort for all people. You clearly take offence to this view so that’s on you and not on me.

melontone · 10/02/2023 01:15

The size of the earthquake is nearly the size of United Kingdom. It is very very rare for an earthquake to trigger another earthquake with the same magnitude, after shocks yes but another earthquake is very very rare and this is what happened. We see earthquakes that are same or higher magnitude with less destruction but this earthquake was very very powerful do you know why? The shallowness of the epicentre is one of the main factors which caused so much destruction and it being inland. Japanese 9 magnitude earthquake was offshore and the tsunami caused the damage, not ground shake like in Turkey and the epicentre being in land and it being very shallow! This area experienced only one earthquake at this scale 510 years ago so imagine all those centuries with that energy building up and then releasing to experience not one but two earthquakes! That's how powerful it was! An area that is as large as the whole of United Kingdom and despite that, the army, the search and rescue teams from Turkey, volunteers, medical personnel arrived on day 1. Yes they couldn't get to everyone where there were major road damages, airport damage where cities, towns and villages were cut off. They concentrated on the cities with higher population to save the most lives whilst experiencing aftershocks after aftershocks in between with another huge earthquake with buildings collapsing over their heads everywhere. Foreign rescues arrived on day 2, 3 and that's when most of the help was there. 60% of the buildings there were built illegally, without planning regulations. The extra floors which contributed into the buildings collapsing like a pancake were caused by greed from landowners and contractors! let me get a picture for you and maybe your peanut sized brain can grasp how big this earthquake was and perhaps you can tell the Turkish Republic Officials how they could have done their job better in this horrific situation because you seem to know everything just because you're married to someone. Also please add the blizzard in the factor as well before making statements that this area was ignored because there were Kurdish people! You should be ashamed of yourself! There's Turkish citizen mothers offering to breastfeed orphaned infants right now. How dare you!!!

The earthquakes in Syria and Turkey.
DomPom47 · 10/02/2023 02:16

melontone · 10/02/2023 01:15

The size of the earthquake is nearly the size of United Kingdom. It is very very rare for an earthquake to trigger another earthquake with the same magnitude, after shocks yes but another earthquake is very very rare and this is what happened. We see earthquakes that are same or higher magnitude with less destruction but this earthquake was very very powerful do you know why? The shallowness of the epicentre is one of the main factors which caused so much destruction and it being inland. Japanese 9 magnitude earthquake was offshore and the tsunami caused the damage, not ground shake like in Turkey and the epicentre being in land and it being very shallow! This area experienced only one earthquake at this scale 510 years ago so imagine all those centuries with that energy building up and then releasing to experience not one but two earthquakes! That's how powerful it was! An area that is as large as the whole of United Kingdom and despite that, the army, the search and rescue teams from Turkey, volunteers, medical personnel arrived on day 1. Yes they couldn't get to everyone where there were major road damages, airport damage where cities, towns and villages were cut off. They concentrated on the cities with higher population to save the most lives whilst experiencing aftershocks after aftershocks in between with another huge earthquake with buildings collapsing over their heads everywhere. Foreign rescues arrived on day 2, 3 and that's when most of the help was there. 60% of the buildings there were built illegally, without planning regulations. The extra floors which contributed into the buildings collapsing like a pancake were caused by greed from landowners and contractors! let me get a picture for you and maybe your peanut sized brain can grasp how big this earthquake was and perhaps you can tell the Turkish Republic Officials how they could have done their job better in this horrific situation because you seem to know everything just because you're married to someone. Also please add the blizzard in the factor as well before making statements that this area was ignored because there were Kurdish people! You should be ashamed of yourself! There's Turkish citizen mothers offering to breastfeed orphaned infants right now. How dare you!!!

There is literally not a single thing that I have written which is either offensive/hateful or not true. Must add that I am also not rude to other posters either in the language or the tone that I have taken.

Post 1: I acknowledge the elements of snow and rain making access difficult

Post 2: I acknowledge areas where there is great loss and that these are areas where the people are ignored by the government – this is historically true and systematic.

Post 3: “Important thing is that help gets to every human in all regions impacted. Government should be there for all its citizens and not just those that vote for them.” A perfectly legitimate and fair statement.

Post 4: White Helmets and their bravery.

Post 5: Making it clear that the Red Cross does work in Muslim countries.

Post 6: Reiterating my hope that the Government makes an effort for all people.

Since you ask I can actually tell the Turkish Republic Officials how they could have done their job better and they can start by explaining how they used the 88 billion lira earthquake tax that they collected from hardworking citizens to try to mitigate the devasting impact of this earthquake. They can then follow on by explaining why they are not doing a better job with the soldiers who are conscripted as well as professionals to train them for scenarios like this. There’s a strong mining community, have they been called on to help with search and rescue too…..

Of course, I am aware of the brilliant individuals who open their homes and hearts and will literally take the coats of their own back to help others, the hospitality of Turkish people is well known.

I am far from ashamed of myself for stating the truth. Rather proud of myself for being in a position where I can use my “peanut-sized brain” to hold people in power to question and challenge them to be better for all their citizens. This is something people in Turkey are unable to do at the moment as the Turkish government which you are so vehemently supporting is curbing their freedom of speech e.g. on social media when they legitimately are asking questions about the lack of support they are getting and the disorganization on the ground level. No doubt you will find a way to justify this.

Anyone who is reading these posts can go off and find things out for themselves.

SupremeCommanderServalan · 10/02/2023 06:34

@CoteDAzur i think you are the one that is turning this thread into a defence of the Turkish state. What I am doing is pointing out the truth of the situation, given our family have lost their homes in the earthquake, and some are unaccounted for, I think that it is not for you to tell me what I can and cannot say here. Although in my experience white Turks tend to get uncomfortable when racism in Turkey is exposed, to the point of denying it exists. Much like men can deny sexism exists.

SupremeCommanderServalan · 10/02/2023 06:48

Rather than wasting any more of my energy here on this thread dealing with racism, I am going to put it into fundraising for the victims of the earthquake.

I will pray for some good news for your family @DomPom47.

goodmother90 · 10/02/2023 19:20

Hi everyone, I haven't had time to read the whole thread but I just wanted to aplaud everyone and encourage this thread to stay active and people to keep posting, so we can keep up efforts with the fundraising.
I was in Kahramanmaraş, the biggest city nearest to the earthquake epicentres when it happened. I'm lucky to be alive and all I can see day and night is the faces of the people I knew who have now by this point certainly died. We drove around the city several times in the days following the earthquakes and I can confirm there were no soildiers police or rescue teams, the poor people spent at least 2 or 3 days with no help, no aid, the government sat with their arms crossed while people lay dying under the rubble.
As you have probably heard there were many brand new buildings that were incredibly damaged by the earhquake, that most certainly had not complied with the building standards, nonetheless were approved and deemed suitable to live in.
I spoke to someone today who is digging through the rubble in search for his relatives. He's just relieved when he finds another body that he can bury, that's all.

Logsandcogs · 10/02/2023 21:07

Dom, so you agree we are all one and the same. You agree most Turks treat kurds as one of them. You aren't denying the Turkish mothers are mothering kurdish orphans right now, you don't deny we're all in this shit together. Am I correct?
You're saying the government is ignoring these regions, sending help too late, because of the ethnicities involved, is that interpretation correct?

Listen I despise this government as much as you do, maybe more. I want them gone with every fibre of my being. I genuinely think its due to incompetence, but who knows there are lots of scum in that so called Parliament. Maybe some arse hole somewhere said hey send the first truck to x location. But that's government. The first response was aid organisers, regular people. Ahbap and so on. They won't discriminate. What I'm trying to say is you can't generalise this into Turkish people, who ran to help without thinking who is from where. Vast, vast majority of Turkish people do not differentiate between ethnicities. We don't think about race like us-style. It's just not our culture. Hope we can agree on this and put a stop to the bickering. As the other poster said below focus on how we can get out of this. We have a soup of ethnicities in us anyway.. There's no pure Turkish ethnicity, it never existed...

Logsandcogs · 10/02/2023 21:13

@goodmother90 im so sorry... Have cried 2 days straight. I can only imagine people digging with thir bare hands... Where are you now? People who leave the city where are they going to? Have you seen any aid arriving, blankets, coats, food?

melontone · 10/02/2023 23:32

In Kahramanmaras a building where the columns were removed so a auto car garage can fit more cars to service caused a building to collapse where a family were trapped where it took more than 30 hours to rescue. The buildings next to it survived but the one where the columns were removed collapsed. A dodgy contractor today was caught and arrested trying to escape Turkey where he built a brand new complex in Hatay in 2013. The whole building went down forward facing. A mother was crying where she lost her daughter saying she bought her daughter the most expensive grave (meaning the flat she gifted her that became her grave during the earthquake). None of the ToKI homes which is the social housing have collapsed which were built by the government and regulated. The buildings that collapsed were either dodgy contractors using cheap materials or were built illegally with extra floors which weren't permitted or columns removed like the first case I have given.

Coming back to the aid, the first day majority of Turkey were unaware of the extent of the destruction including the world. 6,500 buildings collapsed that day. You cannot get help there within the first hour only the locals will be there including the local rescue teams. The earthquake happened at around 4am. Everyone woke up to this horrific news. The help that got there were already there including the rescue teams, army who have their barracks hence why the army won't be on every street let alone on every village by every single building. The army were transferred from different army quarters across the country and this takes time. Help got there but again not enough to distribute to 11 cities, towns, villages again where roads were destructed and a second earthquake hit. My friends who works for Afad and Anka were there on day one as they travelled from Istanbul and Ankara both Turks and went straight to Kahramanmaras and have been there since day 1 working day and night and saved lives and pulled out more dead on day 1. Umke (National medical rescue team) was there and reinforcements arrived a couple of hours later just like other help. International help arrived from day 2 at earliest because it takes time to gather people, equipment etc. the journalists got there on day 1 and in fact they were already there because DHA have journalists living everywhere so the ones that were recording live footage were already living there. What I'm trying to say is the immediate relief was there but it wasn't enough until the reinforcements reached and that's not because of the ethic background it was due to logistics and the scale of the destruction involving many cities, towns and villages with connecting roads destructed by the rubble and the earthquake itself. The blizzard was also a factor. The area that was affected is nearly the size of the UK.

The whole country is down and mourning. Many volunteers are working day and night helping in the whole country trying to make a difference in their own way so it's so harsh to say places were ignored due to it's history and ethnic background. I'm against the political party and their policies but one thing I won't ever accept especially after seeing all of this unity including civilians and work done by the gov agencies and the army is to create divide. The survivors that have lost their homes or homes that have become unstable are going to be given many incentives to re-home them until it's rebuilt most likely by toki social homes, again none of these buildings collapsed and who's going to pay for this? Turkish citizen taxpayers. Do you think this would have ever happened if there was a divide or if people were really discriminated or forgotten? Turkey is such a mix country with centuries of living together, fighting the same wars, marrying and no one cares where you are from. So many people have lost someone they know or know someone that has lost a close family member regardless of their ethnic background.

melontone · 10/02/2023 23:51

This is why the whole country is mourning because everyone is connected one way or another. Let me give you another example, how many days did it take Ukraine to evacuate their civilians despite days of warning? How many people were left behind or forgotten and couldn't get on that train to escape or were trapped in the cities? How many dead did they have between day 1-6. Turkey was much much much worse and it was their darkest day in history and yes worse than a most recent war. The footage with buildings collapsing on earthquake 2 is no different from
scenes from a apocalyptical movie with people standing on the street as it's unsafe to go back in but the streets being more dangerous as you don't know which building is about to collapse over your head. It is truly horrific and there are still lives being saved on 120th hour in this freezing weather.

melontone · 11/02/2023 00:41

Also it's not mentioned but the miners across the country all joined the rescue operations as well as they are experienced in mining in confined spaces. Every resource is being used to save lives. I'm currently watching a rescue operation where rescue workers, miners and Turkish firefighters are trying to access a child that is trapped under a 9 storey building that has collapsed also adjacent to a very very unstable building that can collapse any second if there's an aftershock. The rescue workers are amazing and have been there for days working day and night without any break in freezing cold conditions cheering, hugging each other every time they pull someone out alive. It's so emotional.

DomPom47 · 11/02/2023 10:09

I do not discriminate I see all people as the same and bring my young children up with this philosophy.

I know the government did not send help to all places with the same emergency. AFAD knew Pazarcik was one of the worst hit places and rescue operations were too late. I know that international efforts from Holland, Germany and the UK were much faster. Sadly some of this aid got confiscated.

I am saying when it comes to situations involving certain ethnicities the government (and this is not just AKP, historically others too) do not care. I almost feel gaslighted to be honest, I can list Maras, Sivas, Tunceli where historically people were targeted by Turkish citizens due to their ethnic and religious beliefs and Governments did not care were to slow to interfere. This issue is systematic and historical from what children are taught in state schools to the funding given to different areas.

I have had conversations with people on the ground saying they were denied tents from AFAD when they found out the villages they were from- family members telling me this, literally told they are from the wrong villages - Alevi villages.
I have no reason to doubt they are lying. This does not mean all Turkish people discriminate and all government members be that local or central discriminate age but I will not pretend that everyone just gets on and tolerates Kurdish people and Alevi people.

Anyone from work and neighbours and kids school who have asked to send support I have directed them to the NGO ahbap.org/ in Turkey and the brilliant White Helmets for Syria
www.whitehelmets.org/en/ I hope in both countries the people working on the ground tirelessly will not lose hope and can maintain momentum to save as many lives as humanly possible.

DomPom47 · 11/02/2023 10:23

I am not attempting to divide. I am highlighting important issues. It’s very well saying Turkey is one big melting pot of ethnicities and religions and communities but it is disingenuous to imply everything is peaceful and there is no discrimination when there is. It’s like telling a Black Lives Matter supporter all lives matter - of course they do and all people are important. This does not mean however that some groups face and continue to face discrimination and some of this is systematic from the government and some of it stems from individuals not linked to the government.

The government made things far to centralised which has made getting aid to places a lot harder.

“Over the years the government has granted many amnesties to non compliant buildings. According to data from Turkey’s Environment and Urbanisation Ministry, in 2019 more than half of Turkey’s building stock, or 13 million buildings, contravened housing regulations.” www.channel4.com/news/engineer-explains-why-turkey-earthquake-was-so-destructive

88 billion lira in earthquake tax - how was this money spent www.channel4.com/news/turkeys-earthquake-tax-didnt-go-to-the-right-places-says-former-diplomat

Once again I hope both in Turkey and Syria the hard work of the men and women on the ground is fruitful and that they continue to bring good news to their loved ones in Turkey and abroad, I hope that going forward that the government takes a more responsible role in the safety of its citizens when it comes to building regulations so that when another natural disaster occurs the loss of life is reduced and we don’t have the tears that we currently have.

RandomMess · 12/02/2023 19:19

Somehow I feel the Syrians will be left to die by their government/leaders etc. not the ones in the collapsed buildings but the ones that survived.

They won't get the help they need for shelter, food, medical and hygiene support SadAngry it won't be allowed past the border.

It's so bloody awful

MissingMoominMamma · 12/02/2023 19:23

My friend has been messaging me from his refugee camp (he was already there- displaced by war). He has lost his brother, uncle, aunt, a niece, nephew, his friend and three cousins.

I cannot imagine what those people are going through.

He and his family are safer because they live in a tent.

DomPom47 · 12/02/2023 19:44

RandomMess · 12/02/2023 19:19

Somehow I feel the Syrians will be left to die by their government/leaders etc. not the ones in the collapsed buildings but the ones that survived.

They won't get the help they need for shelter, food, medical and hygiene support SadAngry it won't be allowed past the border.

It's so bloody awful

Latest news seems to be that the aid is arriving but been help for ‘approval’, horrible how human life is treated. We have to keep the pressure on our Government to put pressure on the UN and Russia to try to get the Syrian government to see sense.
There are aid agencies on the ground working tirelessly but there hands are tied due to Assad’s government. So much change needs to happen in the world with these shitty leaders who just do not want to leave power. Innocent men, women and children pay the ultimate price for their evil, horrific.

PerkingFaintly · 20/02/2023 09:40

Email from the White Helmets today:

This comes from Raed al-Saleh, the head of the White Helmets
Dear [],

It has been two weeks since the devastating earthquake struck Syria, causing horror on a scale unlike anything we experienced even in the darkest hours of the Syrian conflict. To everyone who has donated, we thank you for standing beside us. To everyone who prayed, elevated our voices, and reached out to us from all over the world, your support has strengthened our resolve.

Your donation has saved lives. You and 90,000 others in 189 countries have donated since the earthquake struck, a heartwarming level of support that powers us forwards. That immediately helped us to purchase fuel and repair the equipment needed to shift the rubble and pull people stuck under buildings destroyed by the earthquake.

The men and women of the White Helmets saved almost 3,000 people from the destruction and were present in all 60 affected communities by the earthquake in northwest Syria. They worked around the clock to pull injured people from thousands of collapsed buildings in low temperatures, digging through dangerous aftershocks and under the weight of grief that so many of our own families and neighbors did not survive, including four White Helmets volunteers.

My team has been doing the impossible and I am humbled by their courage and dedication. Over 5,800 people in Syria have died and since last Thursday there have been almost no survivors trapped under the rubble, but we continue to recover the bodies of the dead so that their families can bury them with dignity. Many of them are children.

Thousands of people have been displaced or left without homes, and now our teams are helping to assess the safety of homes in the area, removing debris and reopening roads, and surveying for unexploded bombs from the war. Our paramedics and women volunteers are touring the shelters to provide health and care to survivors. The work that remains is on a scale we have never seen before, but your generosity is going straight to supporting the communities who need it most.

We are the only organization in northwest Syria with the equipment and training to undertake heavy search and rescue and let me be clear: The White Helmets received no support from the United Nations during the most critical moments of the rescue operations. For days our calls to the UN went unheeded and countless lives were needlessly lost. In the absence of international aid we were left to do what we could with limited existing equipment and manpower. The generosity of individuals like you around the world allowed us to be there for our people in northwest Syria.

As we searched through the rubble of thousands of buildings, it was the local affected communities that helped us most: lending their cars and heavy vehicles to the response, helping to dig, and donating fuel they could have used to keep themselves warm.

The response to this earthquake is a devastating reminder of the world's indifference towards the suffering of the Syrian people. We have been ignored in the face of countless disasters at the hands of the Assad regime and Russia, and now after a natural disaster. Here, surrounded by heartbreak and devastation, I can only tell you that we did everything we could to save as many lives as possible. Thank you for being part of this response.

Raed al-Saleh

IwasToldThereWouldBeCake · 20/02/2023 10:53

It's so heartbreaking.

PerkingFaintly · 20/02/2023 19:52

Ah fuck.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64711228

Another one of magnitude 6.4 in Turkey, aftershocks affecting Syria.

toomuchlaundry · 20/02/2023 20:39

Another earthquake, just so awful

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