The earthquakes in Syria and Turkey.

[HoldingTheDoor]

The horror of it all is unimaginable. The death toll is currently 2,300 and seems to rise almost every time I check the BBC site. The stories and photos are so heartbreaking.

I know this is a pointless post as there's nothing I can do but donate to DEC but I can't look away either.

If you compare this disaster to the 1999 quake, you will see that government response was even more delayed and more inept than this one even though the 1999 quake was near İstanbul so arguably with a far higher ethnic Turk population. This is incompetence and corruption at work, pure and simple, not a case of less help given to Kurds.

Absolutely. Building regs were updated, 5 times since 1999, we have the law, we have good civil engineering, but enforcement is the issue here. Especially in those poorer areas. The gov offices are full of incompetent people who hold office not because of their skills and education but because someone they know knows someone. Of course I fully expect 14 may elections to be cancelled. Erdogan is doing a secret dance in his bedroom.

BTW, supreme-commander, the day is the day of unification, not the day of sowing seeds of hatred. Even if corrupt, Turks are extremely humanitarian, empathetic people. I highly doubt your insuniations, for me Kurds, Armenians, Greeks, every single Muslim, Christian minority is Turkish. Remember, our republic's founding principle, "he/she who he says he's Turkish, is Turkish", being Turkish is not about ethnicity, and can't be anyway, given what an ethnic mix we are.

Erdogan and that long-necked freak in Syria are being FAR TOO FUCKING SLOW to do ANYTHING. Arseholes. Their indecision/choice to do sweet FA is killing more people.

My neighbours just flown out this morning he's lost 3 relatives I've just passed on my condolences and he's son said he's lost his 1 year old cousin I've asked if there's anything I can do he said we don't know what to do , I feel so hopeless 😞

You are being extremely unhelpful. There are 11 cities and many towns, villages and remote locations who have been cut off due to the destruction. Last earthquake in that region was over 500 years ago, imagine the impact of the energy which was equivalent to atomic bombs. I'm surprised there's even buildings still standing! You are being unhelpful because all the Turkish citizens in Turkey and abroad (which includes Kurds, Turks, Black Sea laz, ethnic Albanians etc) are going above and beyond because no one has experienced this level of destruction. Istanbul 1999 was a walk through the park compared to Mondays earthquake. The Turkish government, red crescent, rescue teams have invested more in their resources since Istanbul Earthquake and they have the resources and brining in foreign resources and distributing it. 11 cities alone is a logistical nightmare and it's the only time I would hate to be there head of state . 30+ thousand people have been rescued and are receiving medical attention which means there is help. My two friends who are photographers in that area right now have been actively there helping with the rescue missions in Kahraman Maras since Monday nowhere to sit. They saved a 14 year old girl, nowhere to sleep in freezing temperatures racing against time just like the locals.

"The teams don't need to rush there because typically most of earthquake work is recovery work - not rescue work. People close to the surface or edges of the rubble are usually rescued almost immediately but they are often really the only survivors."

Nonsense. Do you believe that all those international rescue teams with equipment and their trained dogs have come to the area for a touristic trip?

People were being pulled out of the rubble alive weeks after the 1999 earthquake near Istanbul. Chances are slim but given the huge numbers of people affected, even a small percentage of survivors mean hundreds can be saved by quick response from search & rescue teams. Many already have been.

I didn’t say touristic trip. I think what you will see is the death numbers climb exponentially as the international teams set to work with their equipment, not an exponential rise in survivors being pulled from the rubble. There are always a few cases of people who survive much longer because they were trapped without severe injury and with access to water and with some protection from the elements but they are rare. Most rescue teams arriving over the next days days will work on recovery. Of course there is always that slim hope they will find someone still alive but those numbers will be extremely small.

And it is pretty disgusting to refer to recovery work as being a tourist. It is painstaking and difficult work that has little reward but allows closure for families who have lost a love one to have their body recovered.

But it's worth rushing there if you can save even one person.

musing - re "I think what you will see is the death numbers climb exponentially as the international teams set to work with their equipment, not an exponential rise in survivors being pulled from the rubble."

Obviously death numbers will climb as time goes on This is precisely why it is essential for search and rescue teams to arrive quickly and do their best to find survivors while they are still clinging to life.

"Most rescue teams arriving over the next days days will work on recovery."

I don't know what you think your claim to authority on this subject but that is absolutely NOT what is going to happen. Search and rescue teams arriving to the unusually large earthquake zone will ONLY work in places where there is sign of life. Thousands of buildings are levelled. Many people under the rubble are calling their families on their cell phones, shouting, crying out loud. Rescue dogs are there to hear or otherwise sense people who are alive but can't make themselves heard.

It will be a long time, certainly at least several weeks, before efforts turn to the recovery of dead bodies. You will see many international teams leave before then before their expertise is in rescue, not recovery, and their dogs will be useless once the smell of dead bodies start to overwhelm their senses.

That is not what I said, at all. Maybe the difficulty we are having in finding common ground because of a slight English comprehension problem.

Nobody referred to recovery of dead bodies as "being a tourist". I asked you if you think the search & rescue teams arriving in Turkey are coming there for tourism because you are saying that they will not be working on much rescue at all. Their dogs trained to spot live humans and their equipment (cameras, mechanical "long arms" that help with communication and carrying food & water through small holes...) are for rescue.

And yet you insist that they will not be rescuing people. Why? What is your claim to authority on this subject?

FYI several people were saved from under the rubble today, 50+ hours after the earthquake, including a mother and her child.

Thank you to everyone who has donated towards the relief efforts. Some suggestions for those who would like to donate are the Red Cross, the White Helmets and AKUT. Any amount will be helpful.

Been reading about the sanctions in Syria meaning they don’t have access to the rescue equipment it needs whilst oil is taken still in its droves…

important to remember this next time the us the UK and US lecture anyone on human rights it should sicken everyone 😞

Absolutely

Areas where there is great loss include provinancr of Pazarcik which is Kurdish ethnically and Alevi as the sect of Islam. Both groups are ignored by the government. Friends are saying people are alive under the rubble but no help, no machinery to help move things, no search and rescue team. Weather is awful, hope was there this morning but as it gets colder and no help comes hope diminishes and anger arises. The state of emergency will be extended and the elections will be cancelled. Erdogan will remain in power.

I'm glad to see the White Helmets are still going, though sad that they're needed. I know their experience comes from rescuing people after bombing by the Syrian government and Russian forces in Syria.

They suffered a dreadful loss of life from "double-tap" strikes, where the attackers would bomb, pause to wait for rescuers to arrive, then bomb again.

It’s not Kurd v Turk bashing to state a factually accurate statement which is that there was an attack on a community of people - they were targeted and murdered. There’s video footage from the time, there’s survivors from the time, there’s politicians in video who apologised for the lack of support and help sent when people were innocent. There’s accounts of pregnant women murdered in villages etc.

Important thing is that help gets to every human in all regions impacted. Governments should be there for all its citizens and not just those that vote for them.

True hero’s working in awful conditions. Selfless and brave. They have over the years lost many workers. Should definitely be getting Nobel Peace Prize. We raised a lot of money for them as a family as Syria at times get forgotten about, as if the conflict isn’t he country wasn’t bad enough these dreadful earthquakes.

On the news yesterday, I saw footage of a man talking to a young girl called Fatima who was trapped under the ruins of a house. She was conscious and able to talk through a small hole in a the rubble. I was convinced we were about to see her be rescued.

Instead, the voiceover told us that there were no rescue teams in this remote area, so there was nothing her family could do. It’s unbearable. I know that many people were killed outright, others are in hospital and many more are homeless and freezing, but it’s the thought of the survivors trapped under the rubble that upsets me most. I’m donating money, but it feels inadequate.

"It’s not possible to be ready for a disaster like this” my bottom...

I've donated £30 a lot of supplies that get sent over often end up in landfill. They haven't got the volunteers to sort through it. Happened with the Ukraine war at the beginning. They have to be properly organised have someone to hand it over to and have boxes clearly labelled what's inside. Don't use it as an excuse to get rid of unwanted clothes. What they need is money so they can buy what is needed as and when.

We have a friend from Pazarcik who has lost everyone in his family. The whole area was decimated.

As @DomPom47 says, a lot of the areas affected are Alevi (Kurdish + Alevi pretty much equals people who are seen as the underclass of the underclass in Turkey). Cemevis (The Alevi place of worship and community) are doing collections in Turkey and elsewhere.

Erdogan has taken the opportunity of the state of emergency to shut down Twitter, and start arresting those who are calling out the lack of help from the army etc as being "provocative''.

and for @CoteDAzur I was in London helping with the Kurdish and Alevi asylum seekers that came from Maras in the 1980s, so you might want to 'take a breath' and think a bit harder about whether the response would have been the same had the earthquake been in Rize.

A lot of these news stories are making up details or just completely inaccurate. They are not reporting factually but more for emotional appeal and dramatic effect and views. Some of it intentional and some of it unintentional. I have seen so many inaccurate stories already - you will see the same picture on social media being reported with five different stories about it.

Supreme - This thread is about sympathy and help to the victims of a natural disaster. It is not the place to air your historical grievances and your insistence is really beginning to grate.

Why don't you start a thread of your own about how terrible Turks are, and I will be happy to post on it to compare my actual knowledge and experience with your hearsay.

Dom - re "It’s not Kurd v Turk bashing to state a factually accurate statement which is that there was an attack on a community of people - they were targeted and murdered."

As I said, this is not the place. Start a thread about the evil Turks, if you wish, and I will be happy to come on there and give you a side of the story which I can see has completely escaped Western media. Then we can all see who targeted whom with terrorist attacks for decades.