I was awful to DD

[CatsMusical]

DD who's 5 has been an awful sleeper lately. Today she woke up at 3am, I stayed with her for an hour until she went back to sleep but when I got up to leave the room she woke up. I then got up to go to her another 3 million times until she declared she wasn't tired and started kicking off when I took her hand to take her back to her room.
She then pretended to cry, really loudly as I was asking her not to wake everyone up. I really lost my patience with her and firmly told her she had to stay in bed and could read if she wasn't tired, but that everyone else needs to sleep. I did really raise my voice. At that point I just wanted to scream as I feel like I've been tortured all week with the sleep deprivation (sometimes she's been up at 1 til 3, then again from 4.30). I just cannot function.

Anyway I was cross, and she picked up on my anger and started really crying, as well as screaming at me to go away because I was mean.

I could not have handled this any worse. At the end of the day she's just a little girl who wanted her mummy, but how do you juggle this with needing to rest?

When she's poorly, or has a nightmare or is genuinely upset I love to be up with her. But at the moment it's more like she is playing up and seeing how much she can get her own way, I just don't have patience for it in the middle of the night :(

Why can’t she come in with you? You’ll both get sleep that way! Why make it difficult for yourself?

At five she can understand that people need to sleep and that night time is sleep time. Sleep deprivation is awful. Tomorrow is another day. We all have parenting moments we feel we could have done better.

I don’t think you handled it badly at all. You have been beyond patient! Children can’t grow up without ever experiencing their parents being (justifiably) stressed and annoyed every so often. She can’t wake the whole house up just because she wants to. She’s five years old and she needs to understand that behaviour is not okay.

It’s a horrible feeling when you lose your temper with your child but that’s part of the spectrum of human emotion. She needs to learn that people have limits and that even when people get cross, that you can make up again and say sorry. Can you speak to her about it today when everything is calm, and explain why her behaviour is unacceptable? Can you make a plan with her about what she can do if she can’t sleep? Have you considered audiobooks and that kind of thing? I’m sorry, this sounds really tough. But you sound like a really kind mum.

Only on mn do mothers not raise their voice.
you are tired, your daughter was playing up. Really don’t be so hard on yourself. Shouting at kids is not aspirational, but it happens sometimes in most families I know.
I spent many a night in my children’s bed because I got more sleep that way than the endless getting up from my own (I never started the night in their bed).
do you have a partner, relative, friend or babysitter who could keep her for a few hours today to let you catch up on sleep? The world is always better after a few hours catch up sleep. X

Agree with this

I have a very unpopular opinion but frankly I think sometimes children need to be reminded that they can’t always have parents on tap, all the time and get everything they want. She’s 5, old enough to know she shouldn’t be mucking around at 4 in the morning 🤷‍♀️.

I would just let her sleep either in my bed or a little mattress (her old cot mattress?) made up ready in a corner of my room. Not ideal, but this stage doesn't last forever. You need your sleep more than she needs to stay in her own bed.

I would lose my shit if my three year old did that and I wouldn’t say sorry afterwards. But yes I’d also bring her in my bed if she was waking up - is that an option?

Thank you so much it makes me feel a bit better. I do also think it's good for her to realise there are boundaries, I just wish I'd conveyed them more kindly.

We had a chat earlier this week about the need to sleep, and that night she slept the whole way through. In the morning she said "do you know what mummy, i woke up but then I closed my eyes and went back to sleep again and didn't shout for you". She was so proud of herself, I thought we'd had a breakthrough but the following night we went back to waking and constant shouting for me. When she doesn't get her way with me she then shouts for DH who's usually snoring loudly oblivious to anything that's happening.

I just love her so much, and the thought of her thinking her mummy is horrible and doesn't have her back breaks my heart.

But it's for her own good as well, she definitely needs the sleep. I left her in bed once she'd calmed down and she's gone back to sleep no problem so she can do it she just chooses not to most nights at the moment.

I'm so wired now, I can't nod off and DD2 will probably be up any minute now...

You don't sound awful. You sound totally normal.

She's 5 and is behaving like a toddler. If you are never firm with her or tell her off she will continue to rule you like this. Take her shopping for a gro clock or similar, set a sensible get up time when she is allowed to wake you. Put some books within reach of her bed if she wakes early. If she comes to you before this then tell her off, and have a consequence during the day.

Regarding bringing her to our bed I would prefer to avoid it, so usually I lay in her bed or on her floor until she is asleep again. It used to be fine as it was only needed once a month or something but now its several times a night it is wearing thin.

I do realise I am making my life harder, but I want to try to stick with it until I have no other option. I'm not the best sleeper (as demonstrated by still being awake now!) and if I had her + DH in bed with me there'd be no chance of shut eye.

But also I am not even sure it would help. On the odd occasion I've offered her to get into bed with us (if poorly for example) she's said no, she prefers her own bed.

She just wants us all to be awake with her. Lovely little selfish things haha.

I hate co sleeping, I know it is always pushed on here but I really have never liked it. I get barely any sleep and the sleep I do get is poor quality.

You did nothing wrong though @CatsMusical . It might have been harsh if she was around the 18 month mark (although still reasonable to be honest) but at five it’s totally reasonable.

This.

Some very odd responses on here. 5 year olds aren’t awake for hours in the night to be deliberately disruptive. This isn’t just early wakings.

OP I don’t blame you for losing your temper at all. I often refer to myself as shouty mum.

But I would be asking myself what was bothering her so much that her sleep is so disrupted. It’s not normal for a 5 year old to be awake for such long periods during the night. This is an age where their minds start working overdrive and they can get bothered by so much. We’ve had problems recently with DC of a similar age becoming obsessed that someone is going to break into the house, of that a bee is going to fly Inigo their mouth.

I think you sound like a saint for getting through a week of it before snapping!

Nothing wrong with children to learn boundaries and acceptable behaviour. You've already established she just wants you up with her rather than anything else and she can sleep though if she chooses to.

Have you tried a rears chart with a gro clock?

Each night get she sleeps through she gets a small reward - extra story 1:1 or something and w whole week she gets 1:1 trip to cafe or something. The 1:1 is often the most rewarding and motivating for older children with younger siblings who can wake early with FOMO if younger siblings have been night waking due to age!

This

Sometimes kids need to know the consequences of their behaviour - I really wouldn't tiptoe around a 5 year old - if they've pissed me off I'll tell them

You’re not being horrible, you’re letting her know that there are firm boundaries. You’re also letting her know that if she thinks she can keep pushing past those boundaries, someone is going to get really annoyed - that’s actually a great life lesson. Too many of the over entitled little wotsits I meet know probably never had a boundary enforced and think they can do why they like and the world revolves around them.
have the chat with her again kindly in the day, but make it clear if she gets out in the night there will be consequences, I.E. removal of privileges like tv time. She’s old enough to understand that. Give her a selection of toys/books she can play with if she wakes up until she feels sleepy again and leave her to it. You are the parent. Have confidence in that.

I think the fact you're posting this shows how much you care and feel guilty (even though you shouldn't). You're a good mum, don't worry. You're just tired!

She's old enough to know that she shouldn't do this now. You've set a boundary and it was a bit tough on both of you, but hopefully she'll stop doing this. If she does again, be really firm and send her straight back to bed.

We've all been there.
Don't beat yourself up about it :).

Agree that at 5 she knows what she's doing. Pushing boundaries. And if mine had come into our bed at that age (and they did sometimes) it would be on the basis that they had to go straight to sleep and let me and dad sleep.

I do think it would be good to explain why you snapped though. kids need to learn that parents have limits but explaining that will help her understand why you were cross.

I just want to challenge this: I could not have handled this any worse - you really believe the way you responded was the worse possible way to respond? You need to stop this extreme thinking. I can think of plenty of parental responses that would be far worse.

If you don't want her in your actual bed, I'd make up a nest in your room for when she wakes.

I do think you're making this harder on yourself than it needs to be, because you don't want to enforce bedtimes, or co-sleep, or anything. You need a different strategy other than just hoping she doesn't wake up!

I just love her so much, and the thought of her thinking her mummy is horrible and doesn't have her back breaks my heart. Also you might have to deal with this as any parent of older kids will tell you the boundary pushing increases, they shout about how much they hate you, and you have to hold your red lines.

Having a clear policy you can calmly enforce is important. But it is inevitable she is at some point going to think you're horrible when you say no.

My child was 3 when they did this and I told them that what they were doing was mean and I wasn’t coming into their room any more and I meant it.

rhey WERE playing up and it was the last straw for me when I was called in for the millionth time, this time because their teddy wasn’t in the right place in their arms and I realised it was just them messing me around.

sleep deprivation is a killer. I don’t love my child any less for saying this to them. I stopped going in but they did come into me for months after. I’d wake up to then cuddling or kissing me then going back to their own room. It didn’t bother me because I could go straight back to sleep and ultimately I understood that they just needed the reassurance that I was there which was all it had been before that, they just couldn’t articulate it.

theu still do it now, but instead they don’t go to sleek and come up with a thousand excuses to come down every night. It’s become a running joke now where we all laugh and ask what the made up reason is this time.

dont beat yourself up, you’re an exhausted parent who hit the end of their rope.