Ready to give up on child

[CupEmpty]

I know I’m going to get some judgey responses in here but pls realise this is coming from a place of desperation, I’m bereft and at my wits end.

My toddler (2.5yrs) is horrendous and I feel like giving up on her and just walking away. Everyone says ‘this is a phase’ but it’s been going on for forever (9 months +) and I have nothing more left to give. My tank is empty, she’s taken everything.

She acts out at me. She’s not as bad for her dad (who does help but works long hours), she’s brilliant with other kids when we are out (we go out 2x a day everyday, fresh air etc). She’s not in nursery because
of various reasons, she’s starting in may (as soon as we can). I’m a SAHM and have zero break, it’s me 24/7. I’ve also got a 4 month old baby who is obviously a big reason for her behaviour.

I just don’t know what to do. I’m heartbroken and miss my little girl. I can’t do anything with her, she pushes me away, won’t let me play with her, is moody and stroppy constantly, defiant and contrary. I can’t do a single thing ever without a big fight. There are no nice moments anymore, just all negative. I’ve tried everything. Making it a game, giving choices, picking battles, I’m not a soft parent and I discipline her when she does something tangible (eg hitting me gets a firm No! And removal from situation) but I don’t know how to handle this constant low level stroppyness. She doesn’t have the comprehension for a general reminder of her behaviour eg be nicer to mummy. She has a lot of big tantrums caused by minor things (eg getting dressed) but I feel I can deal with these - time out which really helps calm her down and then a cuddle) but it’s the other stuff I’m lost with. She’s horrible to me. I feel like I’m in an abusive relationship. I know she’s feeling insecure about baby etc and I have tried. Believe me I have TRIED everything. I have love bombed her and given her basically 99% of the attention and the baby gets hardly any. I’ve exhausted myself giving her everything and it’s made no difference. I feel like I love her less and resent her. I’m so lost.

You are not terrible, you are really struggling and this is ok. It sounds like you are together far too much though and need a break. You need adult company and mental stimulation. Get her into daycare, go back to work. Let her learn she is not the centre of the universe.
I wish you all the best OP. You need change.

The least helpful parenting book I ever read was one that was all about tuning into an upset child, how I'd break them forever if I didn't stay with them through every tantrum.

I nigh on destroyed my own mental health trying to follow it. Going back to work saved my sanity. Hopefully nursery will save yours.

It sounds like you are a very engaged parent doing everything right. Sometimes it is just counting down to bedtime. You need some sort of break. Do you have a council leisure centre nearby with a crèche? They could take them both for an hour while you sit and have a coffee in peace. Or could your husband take them both for a few hours one weekend? You sound to me like a very loving mum who just desperately needs a break.

Homestart?

Do you think maybe you’re putting everything on her/her behaviour, when really the problem is you’re a stay at home Mum with two very small needy children and little support? That age/stage is brutal, however much routine and structure you have, and I’d have gone completely insane if my DH hadn’t had a 9-5 job and my oldest hadn’t gone to nursery at 2.5.

Yes, she sounds difficult but you’re taking her behaviour personally - she’s little more than a baby, she doesn’t have the ability to care about your feelings/“being nice to Mummy” (that’s what your DH and other adults should be doing). You sound like you’re doing all the right things, so trust that it will get better, especially once the weather improves and she starts nursery. I also wonder about whether there’s some sort of post natal depression in play - have you spoken to a GP about how you’re feeling?

Your two are practically exactly the same age as mine and you’re right, it can be so
difficult. I’m lucky though as we can still
afford to send our little boy to nursery one day a week which gives me a few hours alone with my baby girl and to do some chores. I also have my husband working at home two days a week and although he obviously can’t do the “parenting” whilst working he can quickly watch them
for 2 mins while I go to the loo or lend a
hand distracting the toddler whilst I deal with a poonami etc. It’s not much but my mental well-being feels so much better at the end of the day when he’s around. Do Do have anyone that can visit you on a semi regular basis (once a week) just to come and have a chat/ tea/ hold of the baby both for your own sanity and so you can spend more time with toddler.

Also, and I apologise is you’re already doing this, due to the massive upheaval a baby causes to such young children, the language we use can really affect how they feel emotionally and how secure they feel that you still love them (obviously we do😍). So
for Example if you’re changing the baby’s nappy and they are pulling you/ crying because they want you to play etc rather than saying “wait a minute I’m dealing with baby’s nappy” say “oh I love that toy, that’s a great idea. Go and set it up and I’ll be there as soon as finished here”. I think you’ll be surprised how much they understand. My toddler is will fetch baby wipes/stroke his sisters head fetch bibs etc most of
the time. I can really tell he likes to be included in whatever im doing with his sister.

Sympathy Op! She sounds beyond tricky.

Two things:

1. ADHD does present quite differently in girls. Worth noting.
2. You’ve got a long term plan with regards to nursery and your husbands work hours, so just try to make a short term plan. If you’re feeling at breaking point right now then just try and put something in place to get through to the weekend or over the next week or whatever. Pay a casual babysitter to look after her for a few hours, ask your husband to take a days annual leave, send her to a friends for a play date. Don’t try and come up with anything groundbreaking that will magically solve all your problems, just try and focus on what steps you can do right now.

First of all you're not failing her. It sounds like you are doing your very best to love her and to positively engage her in daily life and activities. I agree you need some time out, it doesn't even have to be away from her but in your head. Can you bear to calmly read a book on the sofa while she let's rip, no confrontation, no conflict, even though you are upset inside. As long as she is not in any danger she might realise after a few episodes of being ignored that there is no point to her tantrums.

Agree.

I am a Mum of two, now a lot older than yours - 19 and 10 (years)! And I genuinely think some toddlers are just fucking crazy and really annoying. And it’s okay to say that and still love them at the same time! I had moments with both of mine where I literally felt really to drive them to the nearest police station and leave them there - well nearly 🤔😁 I’m really not a baby / toddler fan - and you have both! That’s REALLY hard. Some toddlers are really hard work and it sounds like you have one of them. Things will be easier when nursery starts. In the meantime - survive it, whatever it takes, iPads loaded with CBeebies and kids you tube, endless snacks, whatever. It doesn’t last forever, it just feels like it. ❤️

I used to take mine for a walk in the buggy with ear plugs in. Just to not hear them for a while. They were safely strapped in and I got a bit of quiet time.
My friends daughter was such a doffing toddler - willful, physically aggressive. My friend was firm but consistent with consequence eg they would immediately leave playgroup if her Dd misbehaved after a warning. She grew up into a lovely girl. It’s ok to be strict. This used to be called below the age of reason - that was around 5 where they are a bit more logical. Big feelings and a new baby are a tough combination. Could you maybe have a teen babysitter come to the house and play with her? Give you a bit of respite.

When my daughter was born I had arranged for my son aged just over two and a half to be given his own baby when he came in to the hospital with his father and my dad to to take me and the new baby home.

It was a cabbage patch doll and he likes the idea of having his own baby. He didn’t play with the doll like how my daughter went in to play with dolls in a pretend mummy way but it helped lessen any feelings of jealousy.

You may have done this already but if not what about getting her her own baby doll to care for?

I am wondering if your expectations are too high OP- toddlers are physically draining, before they can communicate it's a nightmare. I think between 2.5-3 you will notice a big difference- but for parenting any 2 yr old imo it's just about getting through the day, stop looking for enjoyable moments.

I could have written your post OP. Mine was like this when she was two. Like you, Dad worked long hours and was away for most of the week and I honestly felt like she hated me. I felt like I was being bullied in my own home, by one of the people I loved the most and I felt awful. We spent so much time together, and it felt like there was no joy in what we did. It was hard, but it did get better. When she went to nursey it all changed and she was back to being my little girl. She needed that time away from me, and I felt so much better having that little break from her. You're doing awesome OP, don't forget that.

I think it's hard to know from your post whether your DD is quite normal and you are just worn out or whether she is a lot more extreme. My DD toddler has this morning thrown cereal everywhere, woken the baby up trying to cuddle him, refused to get dressed, was very cross about the coat I suggested she wore and shouted no, threw it on the floor, didn't really eat much breakfast and ignored me etc. But she is also a delight when we are out and about. And I think she is quite normal. It's intense though and I would get very worn out without some breaks from DH and grandparents. Can your partner take any leave or can anyone help for an afternoon or something? Could you afford nursery any sooner?

I was thinking this as well. 1 i agree with completely. My son was this age at the start of summer last year when i had my other son and from day 1 we got him to help get nappies, wipes, holding the bottle, help bathing(wiping belly, under arms, feet) etc. i do think nursery would be great for her too as would give her time to herself away from you and baby and give you and baby more time to bond as well. I know how messy toddlers can be as well but when baby naps maybe use could do some arts and craft stuff, stories or make some cakes and leave house work till later on, maybe get her to help load/unload washing machine, sweeping or hoovering, putting toys away(make it a game like who ever puts the most toys away in however minutes gets a biscuit or what ever)

Maybe you two are just spending too much time together, and need a little space to feel like two separate, detached, sane humans - absence makes the heart grow fonder.

Some ideas:

• organise a reciprocal babysitting arrangement with a parent friend e.g. you take their kid for a morning, they take your kid for another morning. (Counterintuitively children are often easier going if you add more children.)

• pay a babysitter, tbh I'd consider this a natural cost of working long hours, 6 days a week - but obviously not possible if its not a very well paid position.

• open up to people you know in real life about how you feel - they may be really surprised to know this is how you feel, and offer to help you out.

Please hang on in there. Get DH to step up immediately so you can have a bit of a break/rest and I think it’s also ok at this stage to care for your baby but give as much attention as possible to your toddler while she is awake. You could enjoy special cuddles with the baby once toddler has gone to bed, or if DH is playing with her or has taken her out (or a helper if you can get one). It’s essential here for you to get to play positively with your toddler so you can strengthen your bond. I think this would help reassure her and bring an improvement for all of you. The tantrums over getting dressed are very wearing so if you could use a star chart or reward system as something to help her get herself dressed with a bit of help, and without so much fuss, that would make a big difference for you.

Thanks everyone, I am reading and considering everyone’s replies and ways we can implement to help. We are stuck in our current situation until April in terms of job/ nursery and live away from friends/ family etc but we are changing this as soon as we can.

I find it difficult to describe specifically what the problems are - I do agree the tantrums etc are all normal but it’s just like she is in a foul mood all the time (unless she is playing with another child then she’s lovely). So I try to do 1 on 1 time but it’s usually a horrible experience as she doesn’t want me to do anything with her, w returning I say is met with ‘No!’ And shouting, tantrum etc. eg do you want to chose a story or play with your trains?’ ‘NO story! NO trains! Go away mummy!” Starts crying, throws train/ book, throws herself on floor/ runs away and sobs in corner. If I go near her whilst she is playing she will do the same, so I can’t sneakily join in. She will let me do a bed time song 50% of the time. She will watch tv on my lap but I try and limit this, altho we have had a few film afternoons every now and again but it doesn’t seem to count as ‘quality time’

Tried star charts etc, doesn’t help. Her desire to say ‘no’ and be defiant far outweighs any feel good from praise. She will even turn down chocolate etc if offered just because she always has to say no. She would throw it across the room even tho she loves it because she is just so full of defiance and has to act out.

Re the helping with baby - I also tried from day 1, she refused - just says no and screams. Or ignores me. she has zero interest in dolls.

couldn’t take her for a walk in the pram as she has such epic tantrums she would genuinely rock the pram over. She has done this before with the baby in the bottom seat. She just wants to be walking but will then have a tantrum when she can’t run off whichever way (eg into the road) and I’ll be stuck with her thrashing around on the pavement unable to carry her and push the pram.

Have you thought about pathological demand avoidance? This isn't an internet diagnosis, she may or may not be pda. She may just be showing a lot of the same behaviours. (There are no diagnostic criteria for it anyway.) But the strategies for managing it may be helpful.

PDA information sheet

Extreme Demand Avoidance Questionnaire

I mean this gently not judgingly OP, read how you talk about her. She’s still practically a baby (you’ll realise when your second is her age just how young she is) and while difficult her behaviour doesn’t sound all that abnormal. And you’re openly talking about giving up on her. Have you spoken to anyone in real life about this - a gp, health visitor, your husband? Because I’ve had a very very difficult toddler (turned out he was autistic) and a baby as a SAHM and it was a very very hard time, but I never felt I wanted to give up on him. If you have reached the point you refer to her as horrendous and feel like you’re in an abusive relationship then you need some real life help for both your sakes, it’s no way to live for any of you.

-maybe don’t try and get her to ‘help’ with baby, try to downplay baby’s presence from her point of view, at the moment. She might feel subconsciously that arrival of baby has spoiled everything for her
-let her lead the play
-cuddle on mummy’s lap in front of a tv film if she’s calm sounds much better than these other behaviours, although I realise you can’t do it all the time
-if she likes songs or rhymes or movement games or dancing these are things you could start up and she might join in, also suitable for baby
i know it’s not easy.

The phrase “terrible twos” applied to my DS for sure. It was like he had a personality transplant on his 2nd birthday. Everything was a massive deal causing tantrums and every minute of the day felt like an hour.

Is there a preschool you could use even if it’s half a day? A friend who has a similar aged child who you can meet up with for them to play together?

I did find the toddler years the hardest.
I kind of had to give myself a break and forgive myself for not being a “perfect” parent (whatever that looks like) and did try not to compare myself to others who were in very different circumstances (more support, not working and I was, they seemed to have life all sewn up like an Instagram feed with perfect food, houses and husbands) and I felt like I was bodging it and was lucky to go to the toilet without it being interrupted.

Give yourself a bit of kindness, I think you are doing well as you want to make things work better.

When you are in the thick of it and exhausted and it just doesn't feel like it's ever going to end it's very normal to have these feelings and to take things personally. Don't beat yourself up. You are tired and you need a break. You have a long term plan in place, you just need to figure out the short term.

She's not being 'defiant' in the strictest sense of the word, she's testing her boundaries and gaining independence. And sometimes it's just fun to say no because it gets a reaction. In all honesty OP she sounds like a perfectly normal 2 year old, they are hard work (an understatement in some cases) but you have to keep in mind that she's still just a baby herself, she doesn't know how to regulate herself, she has all that too learn. A lot has changed for her in the last few months. She's finding her feet just as much as you are.

Maybe going to be an unpopular opinion, but it sounds like from what you've written you really don't 'like' your DD at the moment, and she WILL feel that. It's a tough age, and with a baby too that'll be harder but she needs your love. Maybe she's happy around other children and you DP because she feels happiness and love coming from them. You say you're not a gentle parent, but that might be what she needs at the moment she's going through a lot with her age but also having a baby around. My DD is 2.5 also, and there are some battles of course but she reacts well to being heard and given choices & time to do things. You've got a solid routine but maybe some days try break that, is there someone around who can take the baby for an hour and you and DD can just put some music on, sit her in a empty bath/shower with bath pens and let her loose drawing on the walls? You're not directly playing with her unless she wants you to, but you could talk about colours etc sing some songs that are on or do some silly dancing.. lots of laughing an praise for her drawings even if she doesn't seem to want it. When it's time to get out keep things calm and ask if she wants a cuddle and a book. At the same time having someone to take DD out for an hour or two may help you to reset and feel more positive when she's home. What's her interests? How does she play with toys? Is she into role play/building/card etc?

Sounds like something needs to change because the way you're talking is really sad and also must be massively effecting you... this times hard but it will pass xx

God love you, I want to give you a hug. It's SO HARD when you're in these awful phases. They do pass though.
So, my advice for what it's worth (since I don't know you or your child so take it with an appropriate amount of salt) -

1. Think hard and try to be honest with yourself - could you be depressed? Because it sounds like you are taking this very personally and feeling really down and despairing about it. I have definitely had periods of depression and anxiety where it has been MUCH more difficult to cope with my kids - things I would laugh off if I was feeling good just start to feel unbearable. However, you might just be ground down by the inarguable misery of spending all your time with someone who is perpetually angry and that is totally understandable. So if you think maybe depression, see what you can do to address that (medication? Therapy? Read a book about CBT?), but if you think just ground down, try to see what you can do to address that - can you get breaks somehow? Is there anyone who could take her to a playgroup for you or anything?
2. My son decided he didn't love me, only daddy, after my daughter was born. He was very consistent about it for months. It was grim! But I tried to ignore it, lovebomb him as much as possible, loads of praise for any good behaviour, find any little thing that was remotely pleasant to do in one on one time and focus on that and eventually it passed. Keep reassuring her that you love her and like her and eventually, hopefully, she will come out of this phase which I would guess is probably a delightful combination of the age and the change of having a sibling. So anything that you can do to make her feel like she is still your baby may help - eventually.
3. That age is also often just shit, so you may have to ride it out to some extent. At that age my daughter (my youngest, so this was just age) whinged NON-STOP for what felt like about 10 years but was probably about 8 or 9 months. It was SO BAD. I hated it and at times felt actual dislike for her. But then it tapered off. Your daughter will change SO much in the next couple of years. It won't be like this forever. I used to just take the path of least resistance as much as I possibly could and just try not to let it get to me - still do that with both kids when they're driving me mad, tbh. Yoga and meditation help me with this, so I can be more in the moment - obvs yoga with a 4 month old is a big ask, but I like the calm app and do a ten minute meditation in bed before I go to sleep each night, it really makes me more resilient and helps me not spiral into things feeling worse than they are and like they will be like that forever (I have anxiety, so being in the moment is KEY for me not losing my shit).