DS11 - constant detentions for low level stuff at school

[Bookendedbylife]

My son started secondary last Sept, local state school that’s well regarded and fairly focused on academic performance. It’s a ‘hard to get into’ school as the catchment is tiny.

My son seems happy there, but there have been issues in his teaching group with 3 or 4 pretty disruptive kids, 2 of which have been moved. Things settled down for a bit but the head of year admitted to me it was a challenging group.

The problem is my son is constantly getting pulled up for - what seems to me - fairly minor things. Not wearing his blazer immediately after a class resulted in a detention. He got another detention for ‘not having the right equipment’ for class - turned out he didn’t have a red pen.
He’s been getting 2 or 3 detentions a week for the past month or so now and most of them seem to me to be for chatting, and not focusing properly in class. Seems pretty minor stuff tbh. At first, he was scared of getting a detention but now he’s completely not bothered, and the whole thing seems to be backfiring (in my view) ie it’s no deterrent at all.

Any advice on how I handle it at home? I’m getting pretty worried about it as it is demoralising for him, and not having any real impact as far as I can see, and if things don’t improve I’m worried they’ll try and force him out or something.

This is quite normal in y7 to be honest. Even in not very strict schools, they're often very tough on the y7s as it sets the precedence of what they expect them to behave like.

Chatty and not paying attention are not minor things. In my kids school they also get detentions for these things. It makes the working environment better for the kids who actually want to learn and teachers.

It sounds a bit pointless handing out so many detentions.
I have one in secondary and neither he nor any of his friends have ever had a detention. Detentions seem to be saved for pretty serious behaviour. It is a private school so not sure if that makes a difference.

This would be similar for the school I work in tbh. Could you help him pack his bag? Make sure he definitely has the right equipment? I’m sure you provided this at the start of the year, but kids can be forgetful and lose stuff. The chatting is absolutely not minor. If the kids are chatting, particularly when the teacher is talking, the class can’t learn properly and the teacher can’t teach. This is something that you do need to support school with. I’d ask his head of year to find out where he’s sitting in the classroom and who he is sitting next to. Sometimes a place move can help. At my school, if the behaviour is persistent, then the child would go on a behaviour report. This often helps - the child usually realises they need to behave better and the report helps them to focus and make better behaviour choices.

*The problem is my son is constantly getting pulled up for - what seems to me - fairly minor things.

for chatting, and not focusing properly in class. Seems pretty minor stuff tbh.*

Your best bet is to accept that there is something that needs to change here, and work with your child to solve that problem. Instead of thinking of these as minor issue about which the school is make a fuss, accept that the school is desirable and hard to get into exactly gs cause it sets an expectation that pupils will come prepared to learn and will focus on learning rather than waste time.

Only you know what steps will be required, because you know your child best. It won't get solved while the parents consider it a fuss about nothing.

The best alternative to solving it, is to move your child to a school with a more relaxed culture. Might that suit you better?

Chatting in class holds everyone back.

Ime teachers don't issue a detention the first time they chat. There's often some sort of warning before the resort to a detention next time they chat. If it's a test or something serious then obviously the rule is different but obvious.

Uniform rules are petty (my kids school is similar) but as long as they are petty with everyone then I expect my kids to follow that rule.

If your son hasn't got the right equipment then how do you think the school should deal with it? A red pen might seem minor but treating it the same as a planner or calculator is easier to enforce I guess.

Was his primary school lax? My experience was that uniform rules weren't imposed at all (many kids wearing non-regulation items) so rules like keeping a blazer on unless they get adult permission is a shock.

Surely it is up to the parent to support the school and to encourage the child to follow the rules? So the OP needs to be encouraging her son to do better and, in particular, making it clear to him that chatting in class is unacceptable.
It's NOT OK to blame all this on the school.

Why is he chatting and not paying attention? If you don't think that's a problem then I can see why he doesn't either.

I sometimes quietly eyeroll about the uniform detentions but if he's being disruptive and/or disturbing others in class then it's not minor.

Yep, the pen thing and any petty uniform stuff seems silly. But chatting in lessons? Nope. Your son had to learn to focus and not to distract others.

I do agree though, that constant detentions for really petty things like the blazer, mean that kids stop caring about them and have no incentive to avoid them.

'Low level' chatter can be really disruptive to the lesson.

I would always give three strikes then a punishment. Anyone who spoke after I had started teaching, their name went on the board. If it went up three times in a lesson, they were usually given a detention or exercise. This was a whole school policy so they knew what to expect. They had the opportunity to wipe out a strike by a really thoughtful answer. To you it seems minor, but it constantly eats into teaching and learning time for the rest of the class. Not being focused isn't that minor either as it indicates that he isn't paying attention and won't pick up a key concept.

These aren’t minor things, unfortunately your son hasn’t been prepped for secondary (most likely due to you not understanding the difference in standards if you think this is acceptable behaviour)

you can deal with it by supporting the school and enforcing the rules

As a teacher, low level is the hardest and most disruptive thing to deal with in class. Think death by 1000 cuts.

The thing with low level behaviour as a teacher, when you punish or try to explain said pupil's behaviour issues you are constantly met with gaslighting. E.g. He only forgot his pencil, he was only trying ro make his friend laugh, he was only tapping his pencil....

Etc etc

Are you reinforcing this at home or just brushing it off? He knows the rules, has been punished but appears not to learn as a consequence. If he wants to avoid them he could.

Try teaching 30 kids OP, then come back to us.

Chatting in class is disruptive. There are some children who want to keep their heads down, concentrate and get tge most out of their education.

For now, I think you just have make it clear you're not impressed and to let him work it out. Sooner or later he's going to miss out on fun things as he's got detention.

Your reaction to the detention comes into play too. You can't make him care about being kept in (maybe he even gets to sit in a warm classroom instead of outside or something?) but you can be disappointed in him for chatting or lack of attention that's bad enough to get a sanction.

You don't have to be on his case all the time, and with eg an anxious child it's better to downplay it and leave detentions between school and the child. But here I think it might help to expect a bit more of him.

Y7 isn't about doing everything perfectly, it's about making mistakes, learning from them and growing up. Red pens do get lost so what will happen next time he loses one? Do you keep a stash of them at home? Is there a shop he can easily buy one in and does he have the money? Does he need to ask you to get him one? The detention gives you an opportunity to iron out this wrinkle so he is better able to make sure he has the right stuff in future.

To those saying the pen thing seems petty, I can see why you would say that because you’re probably only thinking about your one child. But when you’re giving out 10 red pens, 6 blue pens, 4 rulers and 7 pencils etc each lesson. It becomes a lot. It really stops the flow of a lesson and slows everything down. Then because the teacher is busy dealing with equipment issues, the lesson has stopped and others then start to lose focus and start to chat. Then you have to get them all back on track. So while one pen might seem petty, if there are no sanctions lots of children stop bringing equipment and the lessons descend into chaos pretty quickly.

Thanks for the replies. Sorry, I probably should have made certain things clearer. I absolutely do understand about the talking / chatting in class, and how this is irritating and disruptive and have talked to my son regularly about this. School is very much supported at home, and I explain that he is lucky to go there. He's had his phone removed for not making enough effort at school, and knows it is something we take seriously.

I've also had two meetings with head of year 7. The first was about him settling in early on, as he wasn't making friends, and the second was about him talking in class and disruption - but actually what came out of that second meeting is that there have been real challenges in that particular class, 2 VERY disruptive kids (not things like chatting to the kid in next seat, but things like drawing on walls, getting up and walking out etc) and I kind of felt that my son was being dragged into something that wasn't really about him. This isn't about me not supporting the school, but the fact is, if the detentions aren't getting him anywhere, what's next? He has been put on a behaviour contract in the middle of December, but now what? Nothing seems to be improving. Will that mean they try and move him to another school? I'm not minimising but my son did well at primary school and he is intelligent and on the whole well-behaved. When I hear about what others in his class are doing, I can't help querying things.

I also think that the teachers are now wary about this particular group and are on 'red alert'. My son tells me that one of the very disruptive girls is autistic and has ADHD, but apparently the teachers don't really know how to discipline her. I wonder if they are simply focusing on the easy wins i.e telling my son off. I'm not aiming to be some ridiculously protective parent, but I'm getting really tired of the detentions, my son clearly isn't being effectively disciplined at school by them, and it seems to be utterly pointless and demoralising.

I think the idea of a meeting with the head, along with my son present, is a good idea. Are there any other avenues I could try?

I would research inattentive adhd and see if this applies as this is all exec function things

They usually come down hard on them at y7 to get them used to the rules.

Having the basic list of equipment in his bag, not chatting when they should be listening/working, and not focusing on work are all basic stuff - if he is a term in, and still doing them, then he needs to either buck up his behaviour and organisation (with your support), accept the detentions for not having what he needs, or maybe there's an underlying issue that, if this is still going on at the year end, needs looking at.

He needs to accept what he can control, his behaviour and reaction to that of others, not look to blame others.