Why is no one asking about the colleagues - policing

[Bigweekend]

Over the last 2 days I've listened to long interviews with senior police officers. They've said all the right things about how awful is and how things need to change but they've still worked for a really long time in a system that allowed this to happen.

I fully accept that it won't be all police officers, but none of these officers work alone. Even if their colleagues weren't aware that they were violent rapists, they will have known they were nasty misogynists. Why is no one asking about the responsibility of colleagues to report?

In schools it's an offence not to report a concern about a child or an adult's conduct. Why is no one saying the same for the police?

It seems to me that even if colleagues disapprove of an officer's conduct there's an entrenched culture of not "ratting" on a colleague. And before anyone says it, you don't need proof to report or investigate a concern. So why doesn't it happen? And why is no one saying it should/challenging senior officers on why it doesn't/ hasn't in these cases?

You're not wrong. They seem still to be operating on the 'bad apple' explanation rather than looking at systemic failure. (and missing the point that bad apples infect the apples around them)

With cases like this we will never know what action was taken by colleagues.

Maybe not, but these journalists aren't even asking? They've not even been asked sbout what the process is when an officer has a concern about a colleague.

Apparently colleagues called him
'Bastard Dave'

I'd call in all his colleagues to the enquiry and ask under oath "what did he say about women in private? Did you think this was fine?"

The trouble is, if you go around reporting your colleagues and it becomes known, when it’s 2 a.m., you’re alone, in serious trouble and you press the panic button on your radio, then you’ll find the response probably isn’t as swift as it could have been.

If you do it anonymously, and the colleague gets dismissed, then you’re more likely to find yourself in that 2 a.m. alone situation in the first place, and with even less people on the end of the radio to come and help.

I’m not in the police, or am I saying that people should or shouldn’t report their concerns. I’m just giving some possible reasons why they’d be reluctant to.

Yes and this is exactly why that culture needs to be discussed and changed.

Sounds great! What’s your thoughts regarding how to make that happen?

I think they also need to consider how this looks to victims, in that if they can’t identify abusive behaviours for being abusive amongst colleagues they presumably spend significant time with to the point of not just nicknames but externally reported alleged crimes,

why would any victim trust them to competently investigate any rape?

I mean there’s that bandied about phrase of not assuming malice when incompetence is more likely.

But if not institutional malice against women, institutional incompetence in recognising/investigating sex crimes is hardly much better.

Well I'm not the people being paid six figure sums to run the show, but if it's true that it's only a few bad apples and the majority want this stamped out, why would there be a culture where reporting a concern leads to this kind of behaviour? Why wouldn't reporting just be seen as your duty and the right thing to do?

What would happen to the culture if they hired more women and less men?

Seems to me OP's doing her part by raising her concerns.

Part of the psychology behind a culture like this developing has got to be related to the extremely poor conviction rates and sentencing approach to violent crimes against women.

If the courts don’t think assaulting a woman is that big a deal, why should the officers? 🤷‍♀️

This logic may not even be something that officers necessarily think about consciously, but the messaging must seep into the sub-conscious on a daily basis.

Isn't the poor conviction rate partly due to the quality of the police investigation? A chicken and egg situation?

Yes, thank you

Also, I've suggested making not reporting a concern an offence, as it is in schools. School staff really do see it as a duty to report any and all concerns. It doesn't stop all offending, but there's certainly not a culture of protecting colleagues with nasty behaviours.

I think women really need the backing of other men on these things. I can understand why a woman would be reluctant to report anything like this. Where I work, even confidential personnel stuff is rarely actually confidential. If I was a female complaining about an inappropriate male, in a male orientated workplace, I'd worry it would haunt me for the rest of my career.

I think men need to start being vocally outraged by the behaviour of other men.

I agree completely. I mean why aren't male officers reporting their colleagues

Yes, I guess it is a bit of a circular argument.

I was just thinking that CPS decisions and sentencing guidelines are set somewhat further up the chain than the average officer on the street.

There must be a pretty strong message constantly trickling in, that crimes against women aren’t worth their time.

Agree also on your point about reporting concerns internally. This absolutely needs to be tackled.

Crimes against women are never and have never been taken seriously. Just like medical problems in women, mental health in women, menopause, career women. The list goes on.

Until misogyny is actually recognised as hate, it will continue. Its borne out of the fact that sociality has been built by, and run by, men.

The culture in the Met is sickening. However its not unique. It only appears more shocking as it is inbedded in an organisation specifically designed to find the men who do this.

Rubbish I know 3 policemen all are perfect gentlemen
Stop listening to the BBC and reading the Guardian FGS

Agree

You'd rather employ misogynists and racists? OK

😂😂

Can you point out where in my post I said that all police officers are bad?