Why is no one asking about the colleagues - policing

[Bigweekend]

Over the last 2 days I've listened to long interviews with senior police officers. They've said all the right things about how awful is and how things need to change but they've still worked for a really long time in a system that allowed this to happen.

I fully accept that it won't be all police officers, but none of these officers work alone. Even if their colleagues weren't aware that they were violent rapists, they will have known they were nasty misogynists. Why is no one asking about the responsibility of colleagues to report?

In schools it's an offence not to report a concern about a child or an adult's conduct. Why is no one saying the same for the police?

It seems to me that even if colleagues disapprove of an officer's conduct there's an entrenched culture of not "ratting" on a colleague. And before anyone says it, you don't need proof to report or investigate a concern. So why doesn't it happen? And why is no one saying it should/challenging senior officers on why it doesn't/ hasn't in these cases?

This is the problem. No one's saying it's all officers, but the insistence that it's only a tiny minority is not helpful to anyone, including the good ones. It's clearly not true.

I would ask your perfect gentlemen what they do when they see others exhibiting these behaviours. If they're not taking action, they're condoning it. They're certainly not doing anything to change it or support women.

In schools and places were people work with children we have accepted that people who wish to harm children are attracted to these jobs, we have many systems in place to deter and root out those who might harm children. The police and armed forces I expect need to put a similar system in place. Surely they already have regular dbs checks and safeguarding training? Do they not have similar terms in their contract stating they can’t bring profession into disrepute? The checks and training need to be widened to root out those who are violent and have misogynistic attitudes. Zero tolerance is needed.

On the whole, the police service is run by men, for the benefit of men.

It depends how well they are covering their tracks i suppose.

The inspector who had a large stash of child porn might not have said or done anything that raised any alarms to his colleagues

Why was he called 'Bastard Dave' - was it because of his misogynistic views which his colleagues knew about? If that's the case, they should have reported it.

If it was a nickname that he called himself and just kind of stuck with his colleagues and no-one questioned it. Then perhaps at work he could have not raised any alarms about his misogyny

There are loads of mechanisms in the police to report issues about colleagues and can be done anonymously. If his colleagues were protecting him, then they should be dismissed too.

There are a lot of forces have women either as chief constable or similar senior positions. More now than there ever has been i would suggest.

I know a teacher who worked before mandatory reporting and was instrumental in it being brought in. He worked somewhere where alarms bells rang straight away and he reacted how any reasonable person would when they suspected a child was being abused and lost his job (busting through doors and suggesting someone might like to pick on someone their own size). Anyway long career saw many changes. Back then he was a loose canon and not someone you’d trust as staff. Now school staff are hot on child protection.
there needs to be a culture change, but there has to be an appetite for it and if it’s just occurring to them now to recheck everyone’s background there’s not an appetite for it.

@Felix125 I think he was called bastard Dave as he was an unpleasant person to be around.
www.mylondon.news/news/zone-1-news/rapist-met-police-officer-david-25985841

In fairness I think some police officers do report stuff as quite a few officers have been sacked for things they have written on WhatsApp, which surely means someone in a private group has reported them.

I see - if he was just unpleasant, would that be enough to report him though?

Depends what unpleasant things he was doing i suppose

www.met.police.uk/police-forces/metropolitan-police/areas/about-us/about-the-met/bcr/baroness-caseys-report-misconduct/

Have a read of Baroness Caseys interim report on standards in the Met. Very indepth and covers a lot of the cultural and institutional challenges in relation to the points you've raised. I don't know why journos aren't asking about culture change but the Met is, and has commissioned this work to address it. But it is a huge organisation and it will be slow to turn around.

That said, I reckon these problems are present in policing as a whole, and across society in general, rather than being particularly bad in the Met.

Agree 100% with this.

Joining the police is broadly going to attract a few groups of people:

• those who are looking for a rewarding career where they feel that they can do good and genuinely make a difference
• those who are attracted to the power and think that the idea of arresting or handcuffing someone sounds pretty awesome
• those who are actually looking for a role where they will have opportunities to do harm to others

I think you could raise racist and misogynistic views, get him on the radar, without having witnessed any actual wrongdoing. Although in the latest case it's clear he was on the radar due to complaints made by the public and no action was taken.

Although if he's sharing nasty views in the workplace, that in itself is wrongdoing.

Yes, I remember something of this culture too, so it is possible to change it.

Several of the cases like this which have been reported in the press, were actually uncovered after the family of an officer who died found the content on his phone.

They reported it, and a whole network of WhatsApp comms was then investigated, leading to disciplinary proceedings and dismissals.

Interesting. So that means multiple people in the groups but it took an "outsider" to report them.

I have to admit that when DH died, I didn't look at his phone. I'd prefer any secrets he had to stay that way, so hats off to those families.

Summing up the problem perfectly.
Someone expressing concerns about a colleagues behaviour towards the public is a Backstabber apparently

I wholeheartedly agree, I couldn't believe the fanfare being given to re checking officers for offences, as if they're doing a thorough job when there are serving officers "nicknamed " rapist " and " bastard" . You'd think I'm most places of work that would be investigated.

It's not the responsibility of random posters on MN to come up with solutions to ingrained misogyny within the police

I was in the police for 5 years, and can honestly say I never once encountered any misogyny. Nor did I see any male officer do anything inappropriate. People see stories like this and tar everyone with the same brush, it’s ridiculous.

My DH (different force) did see an officer be racist and reported it immediately. It was dealt with. One incident in his 18 years service to date.

Just to counter that, I was married to a police officer and went out with a couple of others in the years after my divorce. I've known racist, sexist and misogynist officers. Many (particularly in CID) used their role as a way of meeting women. Oh and my XH went to prison for DV.

When it's your word against theirs . Some people are very very manipulative and quite powerful in the workplace if you cross them your as good as through the door as they often charm people in positions above them in to think big they are the bees need and indespensible . I think we've all worked with people like this .

The case of Charing Cross police station and behaviours suggest that some police feel bullied into keeping quiet, even if they know which they may not do.

I don't believe for one minute that all people who work in schools report concerns about their colleagues. I am sure there are teachers who act inappropriately and make inappropriate comments regarding certain children when in the staff room or on a night out. I am not saying it's right but I'm sure. It happens ans goes unreported.

It's like any large organisation, you may be seen as a "grass" if you raise concerns. This isn't unique to the police force.

I do think that the police, in particular the Met, need to do better however they will face the same challenges as other organisations face when it comes to whistle blowing and reporting concerns about colleagues.

This. Police rely on each other in dangerous situations and ratting on a colleague will jeoparise that.

I think many officers try not to draw the worst conclusions and tell themselves that it's just laddish humour because their own safety and their pensions/careers depend on it.