Anither one about adhd in women...problem with sorting

[Darkdiamond]

I posted something under a different username about 6 months ago, basically explaining how inefficient I am at housework and how I have sensory overloads and overwhelm when doing simple tasks. Someone mentioned adhd and ever since, I can't get it out of my mind.

I'm generally a pretty functional person, did well at uni, have a professional career, kids, manage a home etc. I used to think I was just disorganised but since Ive had kids, I'm much more organised and have systems etc in place, so things have improved. However I still feel like something isn't quite right.

The way my mind works sometimes feels like cogs screeching. I really struggle to complete tasks which involve a lot of sorting/categorising/thinking/planning/logistic.My mind just completely shuts down.

When tidying/cleaning, I feel like I use up a lot of physical energy but nothing looks much different. When cleaning, my hands feel too big for my body and I become really aware of sensory distractions such as a damp spot on my sock or something something tickly up my sleeve. This becomes unbearably uncomfortable and I have to use a lot of mental fortitude to get through it. Sometimes i can't finish a job as I flit from one thing to the other, without seeing the first one through. Stop, start, chop, chop.

I have a driving licence but my spatial awareness and sense of the road are so awful that I only drive the same 5 routes that I know off by heart. I get totally overwhelmed by sensory information, particularly if it's visual and there are a lot of things in my eyeline that aren't grouped together.

However, i never know how to sort things and end up shoving piles of papers, objects, books into the same container because I just can't process what I need to do. I used to think I was just lazy but I really struggle to make decisions about where to put things (what category does sit go under? Do I keep or throw away?) . I find this so difficult!

For so long people have thought that I'm lazy, disorganised, sloppy etc and the thing is, I often feel really motivated to not be those things (if that makes sense). I'm willing to put the physical effort into it, no problem, but I just can't engage mentally.

Does this sound like ADHD to you or do you think this is just a normal part of being a human? My sibling got an ASD diagnosis later in life and I suspect one of my parents is ND, if not both.

If this is actually a neurological thing then I can think about more specific ways to handle my thinking, rather than the more motivational stuff I've been listening to.

Hope this makes sense.

I too wonder if I've got ADHD and all of this sounds really familiar to me.

Really @HowCanIPayItForward ? Would you mind sharing more?

I can think about more specific ways to handle my thinking

Do this anyway, you don’t need a diagnosis. I think you are beating yourself up with the motivational stuff as you sound motivated anyway, you just don’t know how to go about things. You sound very self aware which is a great start. Use the organisational tools recommended for people with ADHD / dyslexia / dyspraxia and give them a go. Find out what works for you.

Thanks! Have you recommendations for any good resources?

Last year, aged 39, I literally googled 'how to tidy your living room'. Surely that's not normal!

Sounds very familiar to me and I have been diagnosed with ADHD. I found the diagnosis and understanding my difficulties to be incredibly helpful as it took away that ‘i’m just lazy/messy’ or ‘I just need to try harder’ negative self-talk. I’m doing really well, considering!

@Phrenologistsfinger that's fantastic that you feel like your diagnosis has been helpful. My siblings diagnosis was ASD helped me understand a lot about them too. Lots of things made sense finally.

I’m really sorry, I don’t, but I reckon if you search the previous posts in the right section on this site, then there will be some ideas. Maybe search for podcasts too? Good luck.

Or you might just be generally disorganised and more of an abstract thinker. As far as I know ‘being bad at housework’ isn’t a condition.

I do things like this all the time. I just think, maybe I haven't found the solution to this yet. I am however waiting for an appointment after being referred for an ADHD diagnosis. This is obviously not the the only reason why.

Some of this is familiar. I’m dyslexic (diagnosed) and now reckon I also have ADHD / traits.

ive googled how to tidy. I found Marie Kondo helpful as it’s a system. I get paralysed by not being able to do the whole system, but still her ideas help.

and I’m married to a neat freak so he brings a baseline tidiness which makes it possible to me to do small bits.

on my own, much harder.

i like the feminist time coach for mind management (she has a podcast I listen to. In social media lots but I try to stay off that).

her approach has really helped me and it’s the opposite of what you’d think.

it’s not ‘how to methods’ it nurturing your own well being first and really prioritising and protecting that. And when well rested and stepping out of the self judgment, actually doing stuff is easier.

she’s helped me break out of destructive self shaming thought patterns, nurture myself, and from THAT place I’m more able to be more organised, but also kinder to myself when I’m not.

Dana K White/Slob comes clean podcasts and books. Life -changing. My brain works the same way hers does and I suspect helps most people with ADHD. Seriously, this worked when nothing else would. I listen every single week.

This sounds fairly familiar to me and I'm currently waiting to be assessed. My brother and son have ASD, I'm being referred for an ASD and ADHD assessment, but I personally think I fit more into the criteria of ADHD.

My ex MIL caught COVID really early on, pre -vaccines. She got a lot of brain fog with it and I remember her saying to me "I can be tidying all day now, but I flit from job to job and even though I've been busy, it looks like nothing has been done" and I remember thinking "isn't that normal?" Because I'm certainly like that. 😂 Much more to the diagnosis than I can be bothered to write. But housework/organisation is a Biggie for me. I also relate to the driving thing. I've lived in my town all of my life (now 32) and will often drive the longest way, just because I know it best and I don't have an internal compass like some people do. I could honestly get lost in my town centre.

ADHD is a lifelong condition that has to have shown signs from childhood and persistent through life. There is also a massive amount more to ADHD than being disorganised and the other things you describe. In short, experiencing these things is common for people with ADHD, but experiencing these things doesn't mean you have ADHD. You can just find certain aspects of life things difficult without being neurodivergent. That said, women do tend to mask a lot more as children hence the underdiagnoisis compared to boys.

If you do think you could have ADHD then I would look at all of the other things that go with this - emotional disfunction, time perception, impulse control, tendancy for addiction, absolute inability to do certain things to the point where the implication is severe etc etc, thinking carefully about how and when they appeared. What you're experiencing could be explained by other things, for example, depression and stress causes many behaviours seen in ADHD, but they are a function of situations and environments as opposed to how your brain functions.

I am not saying you definitely don't have ADHD as only a professional who has your medical and social history from childhood can look to do this.

Regardless, I would look at tips and techniques - some which will be recommended for ADHD - that can help you and hopefully make things easier

I would hasten to add: you don't want it to be ADHD. Getting diagnosed and treated can be really difficult.

My understanding was that ADHD was an executive function disorder. So weakness in planning, executing and starting tasks and staying focussed on the task. Not just with regards to cleaning and tidying though. It would be apparent in multiple settings and is usually evident at school as school requires all these executive functions.

Distractibility is one indication of adhd but also of dyslexia, dyspraxia and asd. It also would just be with regards to tidying and cleaning

It sounds much more like dyspraxia than ADHD to me.

@yellowcourgette
Completely agree with your post except this one bit is out of date:

ADHD is a lifelong condition that has to have shown signs from childhood and persistent through life.

It is now recently but well recognised that late onset ADHD exists which doesn’t appear until adulthood, even late adulthood as a case study of a 58yr old showed who was assessed for early onset dementia that turned out to actually be late onset ADHD.

In addition, you can acquire ADHD following a head injury or after treatment for say, a brain tumour.

Furthermore, some children diagnosed with ADHD do seem to ‘grow out of it’ as in by adulthood they no longer meet the diagnostic criteria for adult ADHD.

I suggest you look up ‘Struggle Care’ - there’s a website, podcasts, instagram etc.

The founder has also written a short book -
How to Keep House While Drowning: A gentle approach to cleaning and organising.

Amazon link

I have recently-diagnosed ADHD (mid 30s) and a lot of her observations resonate with me.

Best wishes

Yes this is all me and I have been referred by another health professional as suspected asd or adhd. Two year wait though but I think a diagnosis will help me understand myself better and possibly help me at work.

Sounds like dyspraxia to me too. I have a diagnosis of this myself. Honestly I can't say a diagnosis ever did me any good. There isn't really any help and I just needed to learn my own strategies.

I agree it sounds a lot like dyspraxia but I guess there are overlaps.

You can read more on dyspraxia and find a few strategies here:

dyspraxiafoundation.org.uk/advice/daily-living/.

Sorry, this isn't true. ADHD is a neurological condition, present since birth. The birth cohort studies that have claimed that ADHD can develop later in life failed to take into account comorbidity and complex psychological histories. See: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5814300/

Do you have the sources for the dementia case and other claims? I haven't read any studies about brain trauma 'causing' ADHD in adults, i.e. past the neurological development stage. I would be incredibly skeptical - how did they confirm direction of effect and/or comorbidity? ADHD has an increased association with risk of injury. In any case, we are still talking about children, and I would be highly doubtful if all of the people associating adult difficulties with mundane tasks/organisation, with an otherwise clear childhood, have had a TBI would be more inclined towards comorbidity. would be extremely surprised if

Gosh. I just read up on dyspraxia and actually feel a bit emotional. Are there genetic links with dyspraxia as my cousin has had a diagnosis since childhood.

I am incredibly clumsy and often feel like plates, cups and cutlery just fly out of my hands all the time! I am constantly smashing things and things just seem to fly out of my grip ALL THE TIME!

I am an incredibly messy eater and my mother used to put a tea towel under my plate up until recently, just to catch the mess. Just yesterday I kept dropping my dinner all over myself. It happened about three times in a row and I actually said out loud 'what is wrong with me!!!'. It happens so often. My clothes are always dirty as I'm constantly spilling stuff on myself.

I feel a definite disconnect from my body. My brain/mind feel very far away from my limbs. I feel like I flop all over the place and could never play games in PE. I was always the loser getting hit in the face with the ball (and always being picked last!). My husband is very fit and yesterday I said to him 'I'd love to go running but I cant'. He said 'what do you mean, you can't? You just run'. I actually felt confused and said 'no, but I actually can't.' I couldn't explain it.

I often feel like my hands are siezing up and drop things. They aren't, but when my fingers go in a certain position, I feel overwhelmed and have to empty my hands immediately. Sometimes when I'm standing I'll topple over. I don't fall to the ground but just lose my balance. When I was a teenager my friends used to complain that I would always end up walking into them from the side, so that they ended up squashed. I often do it to DH when we are walking. I don't have anxiety but when I'm in a busy supermarket I have to really 'dig deep' because I feel so overwhelmed navigating people and bump into trolleys, walk in front of people etc

My fine motor skills are pretty good but gross motor skills are awful.

I'm not going to try to get a diagnosis but I'm definitely going to research strategies specific to dyspraxia to see if that helps. It definitely seems to resonate more than adhd.

ADHD isn’t present from birth in everyone. I’m really sorry, but your information is out of date by about five years.

I posted the sources in the other thread we were on about ADHD. The case study of ADHD onset in a 58yr old woman who originally suspected she had early onset dementia, a larger study on a few thousand middle aged adults with similar case histories of being initially suspected of early onset dementia but actually it was ADHD, the large population studies on children and adults showing trajectories of ADHD onset and persistence in males vs females. The studies done on acquired ADHD via head injury/TBI in both children and adults.

Do you want me to copy and paste them here as well? Let me know if you cannot find them.

Sigh. I am going to really fight myself here and not engage in a back and forth argument with a random person on the internet. I am a quantitative research scientist, and I do not need you to refer me to studies. I have already read them. Nor do I need you to 'apologise' to me. Unless you are a researcher in this field with a significant study under your belt that I have not seen then I am going to deem myself capable of understanding this at length based on the available research. This includes being able to assess the source, reliability, statistical significance and potential other explanations of statements put forth in said research.

You are referring to studies that have been widely debunked due to flawed methodology. I do not have the trime or energy to trawl though all of the papers you are referring to individually but I am hazzarding a guess that they include the main recent studies including the NZ one. Some of the flaws:

• They are actually talking about teen onset. Which is under the age of complete neurological development, and not the same as magically developing a neurological disorder later in life.
• A statistically significant amount of proposed adult onset cases had comorbidity with other disorders that better explained their symptoms. They completely ignored other conditions like autism or major depressive episodes, both of which have symptom overlap with ADHD.
• These studies are full of false positives and false negatives and rely heavily on self reporting.
• The NZ study (which actually had a reasonable sample size - sorry but I am not going to allow one case study of a 58 year old to redefine decades of research) failed to ascertain the onset of symptoms; see above. However, their claims are based on only 27 people, 15 of which had other mental disorders with comorbid symptoms.
• A significant amount also of the above had symptoms from childhood, but they were not diagnosed at that point as they were below threshold.

Despite this, even if adult-onset ADHD exists, we're talking about such a low probability of developing it that it's extremely unlikely. Again I highly doubt that the recent surge of people claiming to have ADHD because tiktok told them haven't also had adult brain trauma. In addition, if it does exist, it is not the same condition as 'standard' ADHD which is defined as a neurological developmental disorder.

I don't expect everyone to do a deep dive into research, but it really grinds my gears when unqualified people put across stuff they've read as hard facts and will defend it so adamantly. You are misleading people by coming across so confident and stating this as fact. It's feeding this ridiculous trend which is extremely damaging. Just because you read it on the internet doesn't make it true.

I've had enough now so I'm going to sign off!!!