Cultural circumcision in babies/young boys

[junipermarten]

1 of my DS's is circumcised due to a medical issue, he was 3 at the time and it was bloody horrific.

When he was going through it, a good friend gave me tips on after care and offered the number of a private doctor. She has sons who were circumcised shortly after birth for religious reasons.

I personally don't agree with circumcision unless medically required however I respect others choices for religious reasons.

It got me thinking about the high % of boys in the US who are circumcised for cultural reasons, just over 2/3rds. Why is it so prevalent there?

I was having a look at % of male pop per country and the highest were mainly Islamic, but also Samoa was almost 100% which surprised me but apparently its cultural as opposed to religious (I think).

You do realise that everyone on those threads usually unanimously agrees that the one random person - probably a troll- who dishwashes their toilet brush or doesn’t shower regularly is disgusting?? It’s not the norm here!

I shower every day, thanks. Twice a day if I’m sweaty or been really active. Everyone I know does.

You’re being absolutely daft if you think the vast majority of people from the UK don’t understand about hygiene. 🙄

Exactly.

Oh isn't it @SnoozyLucy7 ? I guess posts on Mumsnet aren't representative of the UK population 😊re tattoos, I was wondering re age of consent, babies can't consent but can older children (under 18) be considered to understand consent?

As much as it would be nice for people to not judge, I think it's only human really! And no one here is under the illusion that the UK isn't judged by majority religious countries for practices they would consider as immoral either so I guess it's fair that people can also disagree/judge people who circumsize their kids. Would be better to use different, (maybe gentler) language though as a pp pointed out

But the baby is not able to consent.

Precisely.
It is child mutilation and absolutely wrong.

We absolutely should judge mutilation of children, even if their parents consent. FGM is rightly banned, even though it is culture and tradition in other parts of the world. It should be illegal to cut healthy body parts off children - no exceptions.

What on earth are you talking about? Good grief.

Surely, you get your information and facts from other sources as well, rather than just solely and exclusively from here I.e mumsnet (which I love)??

The age of consent, for say medical treatments, is 16 years old. In some cases, if the child is considered more mature it can be a bit younger.

Fair point re sources@SnoozyLucy7 ! However, I'm not talking about what's legal but what happens normally and is considered acceptable. The average UK teen has sexual relationships before 18, I doubt many people would argue with that! Thanks for the info re age of consent

Can you please elaborate on these immoral practices, taking place in the UK, that we are so judged for, by other countries?

Doesn't really matter does it though? You're entitled to your practices and other people don't have to accept them and vice versa! I'm actually saying its perfectly human to judge and pointing out it happens both ways. Surely you don't think everything we do in the UK is acceptable worldwide? But it doesn't really matter in any case I think

This thread has come at an apt time for me. My baby boy is due next week and will have his Brit Milah (ritual circumcision) eight days after IY"H. It's interesting to read people's views.

For us it's non-negotiable as observant Jews. I'm not massively looking forward to it, but it's an important ritual that will link him to his forefathers going back to Avraham Avinu.

Hardest thing will be not revealing his name until afterwards.

For us it's non-negotiable as observant Jews

What would happen if you didn't go ahead with it?

If keeping a name secret is harder for you than watching your baby go through unnecessary pain while having part of him cut off then maybe you should have a look at yourself

Of course it’s negotiable. You’re making a choice to do this. Let’s not pretend otherwise.

Cutting off a perfectly healthy body part of a child too young to consent, should be a child protection issue. Absolutely a reason for the state to be involved.

There are men campaigning. For now, babies are still being mutilated. Horrendous.

Quite.

When it comes to majority religious countries judging the UK we should probably look at those countries, assess how they treat women and LGBT people and then tell them to fuck off with their judgement.

And of course most of us would rather our kids didn't engage in sex young, and we definitely wouldn't want them getting tattoos under age, but that's about parenting and how you tackle an issue without making it worse. What would you do with two 15 year olds having sex, fling them in jail?

Completely agree with your point, who is anyone to judge anyone else right! It doesn't really matter whether we judge or they do, people will do as they want I guess @pointythings .

It is a necessary body part though. It protects the very sensitive glans of the penis. Men who’ve had it done obviously have no point of reference for how sensitive it should be. If they did they would be up in arms, and feel a massive shame and conflict as they don’t want to be excluded by their cultural group. Shame is such a powerful force in religion, what a pity to cut off a necessary, protective body part because of it. “It’s what we do” just doesn’t justify it.

If God didn’t want men to have a foreskin then surely boy babies would all be born without one?

Just to pick up on the tattoos under 18 being common in the U.K. - no, it really isn’t. My dh is involved in the tattoo industry and it is 100% illegal for anyone to tattoo anyone under 18. And if they suspect anyone is under 25 (“think 25” rule) most decent tattooists will ask for ID to ensure that person really is over 18. If someone is tattooing someone under 18 they are not a proper tattooist, they are what is called “a scratcher”, a home / illegal tattooist and they are considered to be the lowest of the low in the industry. It is absolutely NOT acceptable or common place.

Doing anything to a child that can be labelled a 'ritual' that is none-negotiable/not a choice is wrong. What other things are okay to do to other humans just because 'someone told you to'? There are countless things that people used to do that came under the instruction of multiple religions that were frankly, insane and humans, at least those with the ability to think for themselves, stopped doing it.

I can keep going back and forth with people who quote/@ me but there really isn’t any point. You think circumcision is wrong. I think there’s nothing wrong with circumcision. You telling me that I’m barbaric/not a good person and all the other things you’ve said, does not change the fact that my son is circumcised and I’d do it again if I had another boy.

Countless discussions on MN will not change the law and make this illegal, no matter how frowned upon it’s considered in the UK. Millions if not billions of people will continue to engage in this practice. So going back and forth is extremely pointless