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Original poster

Cultural circumcision in babies/young boys

608 replies

junipermarten · 13/01/2023 14:46

1 of my DS's is circumcised due to a medical issue, he was 3 at the time and it was bloody horrific.

When he was going through it, a good friend gave me tips on after care and offered the number of a private doctor. She has sons who were circumcised shortly after birth for religious reasons.

I personally don't agree with circumcision unless medically required however I respect others choices for religious reasons.

It got me thinking about the high % of boys in the US who are circumcised for cultural reasons, just over 2/3rds. Why is it so prevalent there?

I was having a look at % of male pop per country and the highest were mainly Islamic, but also Samoa was almost 100% which surprised me but apparently its cultural as opposed to religious (I think).

OP posts:
Hoppinggreen · 13/01/2023 21:42

ForgetBarbie · 13/01/2023 21:34

My 8 month old is circumcised, it’s his dad’s culture and not necessarily mine. At first I was a bit hesitant and wondered what the need was to actually do it, but the more I researched, the more I agreed and thought it was the right thing to do.

People say, ‘if there’s an issue then we’ll deal with it at the time’ but the amount of pain and discomfort it causes for young boys/adults can really be traumatic. When they’re young, the procedure is so simple and just causes a bit of soreness for a week or two.

Circumcision isn’t the done thing in this country but then again, neither is showering every day. Every culture does things differently and if you don’t agree, no one’s forcing you to do it to your own child!

My younger cousin had to get circumcised when he was around 7/8 for medical reasons. His dad wanted it down due to his culture but my auntie didn’t agree. My cousin always says he wishes his mum did it when he was a baby so he didn’t remember the pain. His mum agrees too

So rather than object to unnecessary mutilation of children we just shouldn’t do it to our own?

Rockingcloggs · 13/01/2023 21:43

@ForgetBarbie but surely if someone is lazy enough that they had to have their foreskin removed so it wasn't dirty then they're lazy enough not to clean their arses, feet, scrotum or arm pits either but you're not advocating removing them?

TheWayTheLightFalls · 13/01/2023 21:43

genuinely don’t understand why removing that particular part of the body is so important. Why the foreskin? Why not the ear lobe or the tip of the little finger? (I know I sound like I’m being ridiculous but I’m genuinely curious). I wonder why, in so many cultures and religions, the foreskin is such an abhorrent thing that needs to be removed.

I'm not a theologist but as a lay person and Jew I suspect it boils down to the fact that it's a covenant between God and the males of the race - it's something that males have and females don't. That's a very unorthodox answer though!

This is the underlying bit of the Old Testament:

Gen 17:9-11
And God said to Abraham: “As for you, you shall keep My covenant, you and your descendants after you throughout their generations. This is My covenant which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: Every male child among you shall be circumcised. And you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between Me and you.

AllyCatTown · 13/01/2023 21:43

For those asking why it’s done in religions like Judaism there’s a commandment by God for Abraham to circumcise his son and himself and people. It’s a sort of bond and mark of being in the club so to speak.

I’m not religious and don’t want to be offensive but it don’t get it either. I don’t know if they went through with it but I’m sure Denmark were talking about banning it. I guess though you have issues of back alley operations which would be worse for the children.

Scrambledchickens · 13/01/2023 21:45

I think its a ridiculous and completely outdated practice, not without risk.
if a foreskin needs attention at a later date that’s a different issue.

thepatronsaintofbubblewrap · 13/01/2023 21:46

I'm dead against circumcision unless absolutely medically necessary. I don't care if it's cultural to pull foreskin off a baby's penis or if it's religious, it's vile.
If it is medically necessary, I think it should be done under anaesthesia unless impossible: It's very unlikely that would ever need to happen. Vile practice.
Don't make it normal.
I am obviously very against female circumcision.

ForgetBarbie · 13/01/2023 21:49

@Kabalagala someone asked a question and I answered it. Whether you think the answer is stupid is neither here nor there. It’s the exact same reason why Muslim women who are on their periods, aren’t able to fast during Ramadan. It’s a cleanliness issue.

@Hoppinggreen oh no, of course you can reject to it but sharing your opinions on Mumsnet isn’t going to make a difference at all.

@Rockingcloggs i’m not advocating anything, I just answered a question. Within certain religions/cultures, there’s already strict instructions to have all of those cleaned anyway.

I’m not foing back and forth with people. Just came to respond to the OP’s question:)

LicketySquid · 13/01/2023 21:50

I guess it's pretty difficult to understand or agree with a culture that's so alien to yours. Lots of people possibly disagree with things culturally "acceptable" in the UK, children having sexual relationships at 15 and being given birth control that can impact them for years to come, having tattoos done before 18 etc etc. Of course we could say none of these involve taking out a body part and are therefore okay but the impact it a felt in different and arguably far more serious ways. While debate is always good and can be healthy, a respect of other cultures is probably a good thing as well

Needanewnamebeingwatched · 13/01/2023 21:50

Hoppinggreen · 13/01/2023 15:42

It should be illegal to have bits of skin removed from your child unless a medical professional recommends it.

I agree, we fight FGM why not MGM?

Snugglemonkey · 13/01/2023 21:53

I feel it should be illegal to chop bits of children off without it being absolutely necessary. It is abusive to permanently disfigure a baby. We do not own the bodies of our children, they do.

Rockingcloggs · 13/01/2023 21:55

@ForgetBarbie Then just give them the same strict instructions to clean it and then they won't have to lob it off a newborn baby!

mathanxiety · 13/01/2023 22:04

@Xrays - 'why the foreskin'?

Because it's easy to remove and recover from the removal. Also, it's not a necessary body part - removing it has no serious after effects.

The removal could be done and has been done with minimal equipment by individuals whose training consisted of an apprenticeship for thousands of years.

As far as the symbolism goes, maybe there's an element of taking a component of virility and altering it to signify humility before God, like the tonsuring of monks?

Kendodd · 13/01/2023 22:05

LicketySquid · 13/01/2023 21:50

I guess it's pretty difficult to understand or agree with a culture that's so alien to yours. Lots of people possibly disagree with things culturally "acceptable" in the UK, children having sexual relationships at 15 and being given birth control that can impact them for years to come, having tattoos done before 18 etc etc. Of course we could say none of these involve taking out a body part and are therefore okay but the impact it a felt in different and arguably far more serious ways. While debate is always good and can be healthy, a respect of other cultures is probably a good thing as well

It's not culturally acceptable in the UK for children to have sex or get tattoos. It's so far from culturally acceptable as to be illegal.

Snugglemonkey · 13/01/2023 22:06

Mumtobabyhavoc · 13/01/2023 19:30

How does everyone feel about female circumcision, then?

They are the same thing. It is just about degree of damage.

LicketySquid · 13/01/2023 22:10

@Kendodd oh that's interesting to hear. I wouldn't have thought so from the 1000's of posts of kids having sex before 18, to be fair with other kids not adults! Re tattoos, so only adults from 18 then? Good to hear!
to be fair, this is what we do as humans, we don't accept what isn't familiar and it seems wrong to us so the views on this thread are not in any way surprising! If this was a thread in a "religious" country discussing UK culture, you'd likely see the same condemnation. I'm ambivalent about the whole thing myself, but I do accept acknowledge that something I'm not used to may naturally not seem "right" to me

Username6194 · 13/01/2023 22:17

Hoppinggreen · 13/01/2023 15:42

It should be illegal to have bits of skin removed from your child unless a medical professional recommends it.

You can't make it illegal. Unfortunately I suspect this would just cause non medical practitioners carrying out the procedure.

SallyCinnamon12 · 13/01/2023 22:18

It’s quite alarming, the relatives who are so interested in whether or not the new baby in the family are circumcised or not. To the point they’d be “livid” if it wasn’t done.

what on earth does the new baby’s penis have to do with them? It’s a bit odd, to be honest, from an outsider’s perspective.

Mischance · 13/01/2023 22:20

I'm always intrigued at it being a practice based on religion. Presumably these people believe in a god, and it seems to me a bit of a nerve to more or less tell god that he/she got this wrong and foreskins should not be there. Utterly bizarre.

Snugglemonkey · 13/01/2023 22:20

Username6194 · 13/01/2023 22:17

You can't make it illegal. Unfortunately I suspect this would just cause non medical practitioners carrying out the procedure.

Show quote history

Of course you can. We have done it for fgm, why can boys receive similar legal protection?

cutiemcsweetie · 13/01/2023 22:24

My son was 5 days old when he had his. Cultural / religious reasons. There isnt a single person i know from my culture who hasnt had it done so as soon as my scan said it was a boy, my cousins passed me the number of the doctor, it wasnt even something to think about to me, just what we do. Doctor came to the house to do it, was over within about 3 minutes and after a week of gauze wrap and olive oil every nappy change it healed and you would think my son was born this way! He's 11 now and im glad i did it the age i did, its worse as they get older for sure. If i had 10 boys id do it 10 times but i understand that everybody doesnt agree and should act in keeping with their beliefs and not judge 🙂

Username6194 · 13/01/2023 22:25

@Snugglemonkey please don't think from my post I'm advocating it! I think it's awful and chose not to have my boys circumcised.

Sadly FGM still happens all over the world.

Unsafe, Back street abortions happen when criminalised.

I think a better way to tackle this would be through education. From my very small personal study, far less of my Jewish friends and family have their Sons circumcised than they did in my generation. That's through learning, rather than laws.

pointythings · 13/01/2023 22:25

I judge everyone who does this to a perfect newborn baby. I do not respect a religion or a culture that cuts pieces from a perfect newborn baby in the name of tradition or superstition. I consider everyone who does this to be perpetuating abuse.

Weefreetiffany · 13/01/2023 22:33

mathanxiety · 13/01/2023 21:05

@Weefreetiffany

Millions of men are circumcised and don't have the issues you have mentioned.

Using any physical characteristic as an excuse or explanation or implying it is a cause of porn use is a slippery slope.

It’s done to reduce sensitivity, so perhaps millions of men have no reference point for what the sensitivity of a normal e tact penis is?

And sure correlation isn’t causation, america having both a high number of circumcise men and a high number of porn users might not be connected, but the again if the hand fits…

ChiefWiggumsBoy · 13/01/2023 22:34

I personally don't agree with circumcision unless medically required however I respect others choices for religious reasons

I don't.

RampantIvy · 13/01/2023 22:36

it wasnt even something to think about to me

Why?
Given that it is culturally utterly unacceptable to most people, don't you think you should think about it?

someone asked a question and I answered it. Whether you think the answer is stupid is neither here nor there. It’s the exact same reason why Muslim women who are on their periods, aren’t able to fast during Ramadan. It’s a cleanliness issue.

@ForgetBarbie Could you explain the logic about fasting and being on your period being unclean. What does not eating have anything to do with periods and cleanliness?

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