Cultural circumcision in babies/young boys

[junipermarten]

1 of my DS's is circumcised due to a medical issue, he was 3 at the time and it was bloody horrific.

When he was going through it, a good friend gave me tips on after care and offered the number of a private doctor. She has sons who were circumcised shortly after birth for religious reasons.

I personally don't agree with circumcision unless medically required however I respect others choices for religious reasons.

It got me thinking about the high % of boys in the US who are circumcised for cultural reasons, just over 2/3rds. Why is it so prevalent there?

I was having a look at % of male pop per country and the highest were mainly Islamic, but also Samoa was almost 100% which surprised me but apparently its cultural as opposed to religious (I think).

The victims are baby boys so someone has to speak for them

As I said, they grow into men who can speak for themselves.

Thank you. It amazes me to think that someone long ago thought “that’s a good idea”, tried it, persuaded others to do it and now… here we are, millions upon millions of men without their foreskin 😳🤷‍♀️

I saw this on TV. It is the bullet ant glove test of the Mawe people in the Amazon

probably also a mark of group identity, similar to facial tattoos or other body markings.

Do they really take their pants down and compare?

All abused children grow into adults (the ones that survive anyway), do we stop campaigning and supporting child safety and child protection procedures?

We support abuse survivors as they heal and seek justice. We amplify their voices. It is not the same as conferring victimhood on billions of men who don't consider themselves victims, because we disagree with one of their cultural/religious practices.

There are large numbers of women who have experienced FGM who also dont see themselves as victims and agree to the same practice taking place for their daughters and/or are the cutters themselves.

Do we recognise their abuse and mutilation or ignore it because they support FGM?

It’s just so fucked up to me that people’s gods/imaginary friends are considered “protected characteristics” but parts of their baby boys bodies are not.

@LicketySquid well, I for one agree that puberty blockers and other more permanent methods of gender reassignment should not be practiced on under 18s - I think it's important that young people with gender dysphoria should first mature physically and emotionally, with the aid of as much counselling as is needed (pipe dream unless you are very wealthy). But that is of course a straw man because there is a huge difference in capacity to consent between a newborn baby and a teenager.

And yes, I'd like to see the mental gymnastics from the pro circumcision brigade when asked how they feel about FGM.

No one is asking your support for circumcision.

Banning hasn't worked for FGM, laws are not enforced. Where there has been progress in reducing/abolition of FGM it has been led by women in the communities that practice it, not a saviour riding in from somewhere else.

The law hasnt completely solved the problem, a bit like laws about theft or drink driving, but it has made it clear that it wont be tolerated and isnt acceptable no matter what cultural traditions are bandied about and prosecutions have taken place

The laws are still relatively new and could do with some tweaks and better enforcement, but just because they aren't perfect that doesn't mean we should not have them - that would be collusion.

Exactly.

Are people seriously trying to hint that because FGM still happens it was pointless making it illegal?

What about rape…
Murder….
Drink driving etc .. any crime at all.

We make things illegal because not only can we punish those who do them but also because it sends out a signal to others about what our society finds acceptable, or not.

In the States it's just another item on your medical bill of course. They justify it with scare stories about the terrible infections your son will get if it doesn't happen.

I had an Internet argument with a US woman about it. She eventually gave up on the medical excuses and said ' Well I think foreskins look gross and he'd never get a girlfriend.'

Meanwhile back in reality a baby bled to death here a few years ago after a botched and unnecessary 'operation '.

It's just a hangover from religion - a sacrifice to some vengeful god. Why do we allow it?

I struggle to reconcile it being okay for one child but not another based on anatomy and that one culture/religion is right and another barbaric.

Well I think foreskins look gross and he'd never get a girlfriend.'

I'm don't spend a lot of time pondering what different dicks look like but, if I had to choose, I'd pick uncircumcised. The other is a bit shiny and grim-looking in comparison.

I'll see myself out...

I can’t see how anyone would pick anyone based on foreskin anyway unless you were literally on Naked Attraction….! 😳😆 Generally it’s not the first thing I tend to see!

Well indeed, it did pain me to type it out, frankly, and it was only in response to the 'you'll never get a girlfriend otherwise' rationale.

It's not about claiming victimhood on anyone's behalf but simply recognising (in light of current knowledge) when a practice is unnecessary and harmful. This is all very normal. We don't generally wait for the alleged victims to request change.

Because it really isn't. There are no circumstances under which anyone should decide to cut the genitals of another human being unless medically necessary.

What 'current knowledge' is that, @TomPinch ?

Are you conflating 'current knowledge' with 'The Opinion of Some British People'?

@FloydPepper

Open challenge using neutral language and respectful tone = acceptable.

Open challenge that includes inflammatory terms, denigration, and terms that have been used historically to stir up racial or ethnic hatred = unacceptable.

If you missed it in history class, there's enough information available on the internet to allow a responsible cultural commentator to figure out where the lines should be drawn.

@Weefreetiffany

There are men who have a point of comparison, a before and after experience of the comfort and sensitivity of the glans.

Anxiety, I’m not saying there aren’t. What’s your point?