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Yet another person killed from a dog attack.. what is going on

877 replies

icelolly12 · 13/01/2023 08:32

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-64254413

Something needs to be done...reports of dog neglect taken more seriously, harsher prison sentences... any other ideas?

Awful, awful way to die, and makes me think twice about passing dogs off lead on walks.

OP posts:
DonkeyOatie · 13/01/2023 13:59

The only time I've ever been bitten by a dog it was by a Mexican hairless breed which was smaller than my cat!
I'm not sure banning dogs according to size will work. It boils down to ensuring responsible ownership, accountability and controlled breeding.

DrDinosaur · 13/01/2023 14:02

FrangipaniBlue · 13/01/2023 09:20

I'm an owner of a bull breed and I agree that lots more needs to be done around dog ownership. Not just to prevent tragic incidents at such as these but also to address the ever increasing anti social behaviour.

  • Licenses for dog ownership. To get the licence you must take your puppy to mandatory intro behaviour classes, for adult dogs (rescues) dog behaviour to be assessed. Anyone found with a dog and no licence has the dog removed and destroyed.
  • Tighter controls around breeding and ability to sell on place on places like gumtree.
  • Dogs to remain on leads in public places; designated enclosed dog areas in parks or private land being the only place they are permitted off lead.

It would take time for the above to be effective but we need to make it "social unacceptable" to do things like allow your precious pooch to run wild (but he's friendly!); buy/sell puppies willy nilly; give them up for rescue after 2 years because it's "too stressful" (because you didn't do your breed research or put the effort in during the puppy states); not properly socialise and train your dog (it's not fair on your dog) etc etc

Once these things become socially unacceptable it would naturally become harder for the more dodgy/underground owners who have the more dangerous breeds to own them because people would be more likely to report them and their dogs would be removed.

This. Proceeds from dog licenses could be sufficient to fund dog wardens, with powers to remove and destroy unlicensed dogs.

We need to change our thinking around dog ownership. It’s a privilege, not a right. People living in these less salubrious areas should not be having their lives put at risk by idiots with dangerous dogs.

FigTreeInEurope · 13/01/2023 14:03

It doesn't surprise me at all that this was a paid dog walker. Dogs are pack animals. They look to a leader. How can a person that has occasional contact expect to be the dogs pack leader? Dog walkers with multiple dogs, one of those dogs is the pack leader, not the dog walker. And when the dog goes back home, who is the pack leader then? It's a confusing, insecurity breeding mess that shouldn't be allowed. If you can't find time to train and walk your dog, don't have one!

Soothsayer1 · 13/01/2023 14:04

LordSugarTits · 13/01/2023 13:46

"No need to approach the person just take a photo and upload it to the authorities, preferably several photos / some footage so you can get a good look and the person can be identified"

Which authorities? I can tell that you've no idea of the types we're talking about here. Take a photo of them and they'll give you a smack for your trouble then smash your phone to bits 😂

Licences and insurances and making it the "norm" to act responsibly doesn't work. They don't give a shit.

When i do escape unscathed what am I actually reporting? That I saw a scumbag with a dog and she might not have a licence. I don't know her name, where she lives but here's a photograph of her 🤔

Yes my plan was very flawed but it's a start, please help me make a better one🙏

Tanith · 13/01/2023 14:06

LordSugarTits · 13/01/2023 13:47

"What an insensitive headline describing the dogs as 'pooches'"

That's because anyone can set up an online "news" channel now and it's just some random bloke who has designated himself as local "reporter"

It's repeated in the live update article, both comments appear to be attributed to the police. Perhaps it's not the reporter's fault.
"A woman killed in a dog attack in Surrey was walking a number of pooches at the time, say police"

Soothsayer1 · 13/01/2023 14:06

DrDinosaur · 13/01/2023 14:02

This. Proceeds from dog licenses could be sufficient to fund dog wardens, with powers to remove and destroy unlicensed dogs.

We need to change our thinking around dog ownership. It’s a privilege, not a right. People living in these less salubrious areas should not be having their lives put at risk by idiots with dangerous dogs.

From the look of the photos this most recent fatal attack took place in a very salubrious area?

Godlovesall26 · 13/01/2023 14:07

It’s hard to say what could be effective.

Dog licences I think would be near impossible to police, from the vetting process to the actual monitoring. Police are already overwhelmed as it is, it (in my eyes) would be hugely unrealistic to add monitoring licences.

Besides, how do you vet a licence in the first place ? I work with animals, and it really is more of a question of responsible training than specific breeds, with exceptions, that aren’t necessarily those that have a huge focus on currently.

Tiny cute dogs can do just as much damage if untrained, all it takes is an unfortunate bite on a child (which would really technically an instinctive fear reaction from the behalf of the dog if they haven’t been socialised and suddenly have a young child running around in proximity : they can’t possibly guess if not socialised adequately that the unfamiliar child wants to pet them).

It as PP posters seems more of a social trend regarding certain breeds of dogs, who can statistically by their size cause more damage.

Unfortunately reinforcing (hopefully temporarily) really huge fines and damages payments to owners could be a deterrent for irresponsible people if incident (I imagine like in many similar law enforcement situations, an evaluation of the dog and owner responsibility could then be carried out), and also leashes at the very least in public places. It is a shame for responsible owners, but that’s the same in many domains.

It’s happening so much more recently and these dogs really have been around for ages, so there is much more likely to be a very huge increased human irresponsibility factor.

Soothsayer1 · 13/01/2023 14:08

Mammajay · 13/01/2023 13:55

I was horrified to hear about this following on from two or three days ago when two American cross bullies (apparently) with clipped ears attacked a cavapoo on a lead in a street in kemp town Brighton. The dogs' owner came out from their house but couldn't get them off the cavapoo so went back in! The cavapoo had extensive surgery, expecting more and may not survive. The cavapoos owner got seven stitches in her arm . The police response..to tell the attacking dogs' owner to secure the garden gate and muzzle the dogs when out!!

Presumably the police are also in fear of the dogs and their owner?

ForTheLoveOfSleep · 13/01/2023 14:11

Twentypast · 13/01/2023 13:33

What about dogs that are un-insurable? Our dog has cancer. After paying £10k in chemo fees last year the insurance refused to re-insure her. No other insurance co will take on a senior dog with cancer. Should she be removed from a loving home just because she's sick? Put down even though she currently has a very good quality of life (although we know this won't last)?

I mean third party liability insurance.

I am sorry about your dog.

LordSugarTits · 13/01/2023 14:12

"It's repeated in the live update article, both comments appear to be attributed to the police. Perhaps it's not the reporter's fault.
"A woman killed in a dog attack in Surrey was walking a number of pooches at the time, say police""

The same bloke wrote the article. The police statement said a number of dogs.

Kevinyoutwat · 13/01/2023 14:15

FigTreeInEurope · 13/01/2023 14:03

It doesn't surprise me at all that this was a paid dog walker. Dogs are pack animals. They look to a leader. How can a person that has occasional contact expect to be the dogs pack leader? Dog walkers with multiple dogs, one of those dogs is the pack leader, not the dog walker. And when the dog goes back home, who is the pack leader then? It's a confusing, insecurity breeding mess that shouldn't be allowed. If you can't find time to train and walk your dog, don't have one!

This comes from people humanising animals.

All the “fur baby” nonsense. I had a friend once who worked from home but sent her dog to doggy day care, to a person who looked after a few other dogs, so her dog could play with the others and make friends (her words).

It’s not a bloody toddler going to playgroup - it’s an animal, with a pack instinct and as you pointed out, swapping about who is pack leader all the time is really confusing for them and can be unsettling and dangerous.

kitsuneghost · 13/01/2023 14:16

Dog should be banned from public places (bar vets and some service dogs)
If you do not have room to keep a dog you should not have one
Join a club if you are lonely

yorkshirepudsx · 13/01/2023 14:18

FYI - specialist rescue units and underwater search teams were also present at the incident. Just shown it on the news.

A dog was attacking other dogs/members of the public but they have not said if the dog was the direct cause of death.

pigsDOfly · 13/01/2023 14:19

Kevinyoutwat · 13/01/2023 08:56

Trouble is, even with licences, people wouldn’t bother with them.

Who would police it? There’s little time and resources as it is.

What’s to stop people breeding and buying from friends?

I live in an absolute shithole. The amount of parents at the school who turn up with puppies of breeds that are going to be massive, are known for aggression. They carry them around when they are tiny, and then when they get bigger, they are just dumped in their back gardens to chew all the crap that’s there, bark all day and they complain that they are “little bastards.” Never see a vet and are just passed around from family members to friends when they misbehave too much. They never see a vet. They aren’t insured. They are bred in back gardens. No one knows they exist.

RSPCA only care if the the dog has food and shelter.

I can take my toddler to my local parks. If the drug dealers aren’t bad enough, their dogs are even worse, it’s terrifying.

There are shithole towns and areas like this all over the county filled with scumbags who are only on nodding terms with the law anyway - the talk of dog licences makes me laugh, like they would get one or give a shit.

And no one wants to say that - if you do, you accused of being a snob. But it’s true, I love it everyday, sadly, until we can sell up and get the hell out of here.

Licences won't work for all the above reasons.

Dogs are supposed to be microchipped but many dogs aren't and no one polices it.

The only people who microchip their dogs are responsible owners and the only people who would buy a licence are the same responsible owners.

You need a licence for a gun but that doesn't stop people owning and using them illegally.

The unfortunate fact is people will have dangerous, out of control dogs in the same way criminals have illegal, unlicensed guns; very often the same people.

I'm not sure there is even the possibility of a solution in either case but licences won't stop the breeding and ownership of aggressive dogs.

Notformethankyoukindly · 13/01/2023 14:23

Incredibly sad story, my heart goes out to the woman and her family.

I have a very well trained Labrador and I used to have two. That is the maximum number of dogs I will walk, on or off lead. More than that, they become a pack and anything can happen. So I actively avoid anyone walking three or more dogs, especially if they are on leads (shows me the person can’t control them properly). I think dog walkers - who don’t know the dogs as well as their owners do - should limit themselves to two dogs. And the breed, and mix of breeds, matter too. I sometimes walk my DD’s tiny breed. I can’t walk her with my lab - they are too different in style and I don’t feel in control, again whether they are on or off lead.

KLM2023 · 13/01/2023 14:24

I would just like to say to everyone talking about ‘Bull Breeds’, that there is a big difference between an XL Bully and say, a French or English Bulldog. You can’t lump all of these dogs into one category as not all Bull breeds are known for aggression or uneven temperaments.

Petersonuk2 · 13/01/2023 14:24

Staffys or bullys

What's your money on?

Castleontheisland · 13/01/2023 14:30

We cant drive a car without insurance and a licence.. a dog owners should have to have a licence and have insurance for each dog they own. Also dog training should be enforced. The police can make as much cash with fines as thet can with motorists..bloody stupid dog owners boil my piss! Also dog breeders needs paid for licensing and chased up and prosecution for those who dont! Also 1 to 2 dogs are enough in any bloody household!

frozendaisy · 13/01/2023 14:31

Throw the owners in jail for manslaughter

Castleontheisland · 13/01/2023 14:36

Castleontheisland · 13/01/2023 14:30

We cant drive a car without insurance and a licence.. a dog owners should have to have a licence and have insurance for each dog they own. Also dog training should be enforced. The police can make as much cash with fines as thet can with motorists..bloody stupid dog owners boil my piss! Also dog breeders needs paid for licensing and chased up and prosecution for those who dont! Also 1 to 2 dogs are enough in any bloody household!

And also ALL BLOODY DOGS NEED TO BE ON A LEAD AT ALL TIMES BIGVOR SMALL DOGS WITH BLOODY TEETH!!! fuck off all you dog owners with so called friendly dogs big or small who run up to kids etc and you say are friendly!!!.PUT THEM ON A BLOODY LEAD!

DrivingDown · 13/01/2023 14:36

@Facecream

Not necessarily out of control dogs as such

I think we can assume that a dog or group of dogs that mauls an adult to death is out of control Hmm

Newtonsnipple · 13/01/2023 14:37

It's unlikely to be a proper Staffordshire bullterrier @Petersonuk2 .

They are actually SMALL dogs, I was shocked when I met my first 'real' one (an adorable wriggly thing).

All of the recent reports of attacks, in the descriptions and sometimes photographs, the offending dogs sound far more like the recent infestation of pitbulls crossed with american bulldogs etc.

Huge, muscled dogs, often highly intelligent and easily upwards of 70 kg.

Probably needing many hours of proper agility and strength training, or to be working, to be able to live a happy life. But stuck in a council house with a half an hour walk, if it's very lucky.

Often extremely poorly bred, where both parents have history of aggression. And also often abused by the idiot who bought them off gumtree/facebook.

jtaeapa · 13/01/2023 14:37

Kevinyoutwat · 13/01/2023 09:17

Yes, it’s horrible.

But honestly, the demographic of mumsnet, I don’t think people realise that’s life for millions of people. Hands up, I didn’t before we had to move here and I was shocked to shit.

So all the talk of licences and insurance - come and visit me for the day, come with me to pick up my daughter from school with the parents smoking weed in their pyjamas on the street outside while trying to control huge, ugly, uncared for, vicious dogs and ask them what they think about licences or insurance, or vaccinations. They would laugh in your face.

But like I said, no one wants to hear it, or they think you are making it up, or being derogatory, or think it’s just a handful of wrong’uns.

This could still be tackled though. Hand held microchip scanner - carried by dog wardens (of which there should be thousands, everywhere - parks, school gates, streets - we have loads of people needing jobs). No microchip = dog seized immediately.

MarshaBradyo · 13/01/2023 14:38

Agree more needs to be done, not sure what

Will rtft for suggestions

justgettingthroughtheday · 13/01/2023 14:40

FigTreeInEurope · 13/01/2023 14:03

It doesn't surprise me at all that this was a paid dog walker. Dogs are pack animals. They look to a leader. How can a person that has occasional contact expect to be the dogs pack leader? Dog walkers with multiple dogs, one of those dogs is the pack leader, not the dog walker. And when the dog goes back home, who is the pack leader then? It's a confusing, insecurity breeding mess that shouldn't be allowed. If you can't find time to train and walk your dog, don't have one!

Pack theory was proved wrong decades ago! It's just bullshit!
The dogs probably had a scrap and she got in the way splitting them up.
Please educate yourself before spouting nonsense

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