Me or I? English grammar advice

[Rabbitsandhabits]

I’ve lived most of my life in the U.K. but was school abroad with a different first language until I was six and I think I missed out on this being taught formally.

I’ve looked it up so many times over the years and I still never know which is right. Even the short cuts about saying it back to front to see which sounds right don’t help me.

does anyone have a simple explanation of when to use me and when to use I?

"It was done by me" is a passive sentence, so "me" is not the subject.

A lot of people are giving guidance about when to use I or me in a pair with someone else, as in "Fred and I". This is what English speakers normally mess up, but I read the OP as meaning that as a ESL speaker she doesn't have an intuitive grasp of when to use I/me on it's own, as in "I kissed Fred" or "Fred kissed me". As a few pp have said, "I" is for the subject of the sentence, "me" is for the object. If you didn't get taught them at school then there should be some basic grammar lessons online to fill in the gap.

TBH I don’t remember it being taught formally even at a good school.

I just remember my mother telling me to turn it around, so that e.g. ‘between you and I’ becomes ‘between I and you’, which sounds all wrong.

Grammatically speaking, as regards I/me, the subject of the sentence (e.g. in ‘Jane and me went shopping, or ‘Me and Jane ditto’, it should strictly speaking be ‘Jane and I, since ‘I’ is the subject of the sentence, or one of them - I.e. the person doing the doing, so to speak.

If the person is the object - i.e. being done to - e.g. ‘He hit me’ or the indirect object ‘He gave (to) me’ then it’s ‘me’ - using ‘I’ would obviously be wrong.

In other languages that decline, like German or Latin, it’s a bit easier to tell.

In German you have ich (I) mich (me, direct object) mein (my), mir (indirect object, so ‘to me’.
English has retained fewer of these, but we still have them - they, them, their,
she, her, he, him, etc.

I get bamboozled by this as the DC all had phases of getting it wrong on a regular basis to the paint at which I started to as well.
I use @Feelallright 's explanation.

An old teacher said an easy way to remember it is to remove the other person from the sentence to see if it sounds right or wrong.

James and I were walking.
I was walking

As opposed to
James and me were walking
Me was walking

See I get that but it doesn’t help me translate it into a situation when it’s both of us!

Ok this is helping I think

Ok now I’m getting confused all over again

As others have said, I just remove the other person. It’s very quick.
Jamie and ? went to the cinema - I went to the cinema? Me went to the cinema? Clearly the first. So Jamie and I went to the cinema.
Jamie gave Erin and ? a present - Jamie gave I a present? Jamie gave me a present? Clearly the second. So Jamie gave Erin and me a present.

Thank you for trying and you clearly know your stuff but the first half of your post is exactly the kind of thing that totally confuses me. The between you and I flip makes no sense to me in how I extrapolate that to the sorts of sentences I’m unsure about. I read what you put but it’s just words on a page!

OP, can you clarify whether it's the use of x and me/ x and I that you're struggling with, or just the use of me/I?

This is a very clear explanation.

In fact can you give an example of a sentence you're not sure about? Your posts contain correct usage throughout, as far as I can see.

If the sentence refers to two people, always put the other person first.

John and I go to the gig.
Mike gave the flowers to John and me.

(It’s never: I and John go to the gig.
It’s never: Mike gave the flowers to me and John.)

Honestly the explanations where you just take the other person out and see if the sentence makes sense are the easiest to follow. That’s what I do. Don’t worry about all the other grammatical explanations as to how and why.

John and I thought we could get the bus
Me and John thought we could get the bus

that is the type of sentence that confused me but if I follow the advice and remove John it sounds better if it’s I thought I could get the bus so it’s the first one is that right??

Correct. The first one is right because you’d never say “me thought I could get the bus”, it would be “I thought I could get the bus”.

Yes, I always followed the 'take the other person out of the sentence' rule. Easy peasy.

Yep. that's it.

(John and) I thought we could get the bus.

A while ago someone tried to 'correct' me when I said 'that's for X and me'. They told me I should say 'that's for X and I'. I took great pleasure in telling them that they were wrong.

The problem is I would say most people get it wrong so you will be hearing a lot of it wrong in everyday situations.
e.g you will hear, “the boss spoke to Sarah and I about our work” because people think they are being a little bit fancy saying ‘I’ as some point they may have been corrected when they’d used ‘me’ incorrectly.
So it should be “the boss spoke to Sarah and me about our work” because you would not say “the boss spoke to I about my work”.

On the other hand you shouldn’t say “Sarah and me went to the pub” because you wouldn’t say “Me went to the pub”. It should be “Sarah and I went to the pub”

Saying all that, using me in that context is very common and relaxed and no one will mind. It’s usually the people that have a weak grasp of it that will correct you and say “I” that will also over use I in the passive (when it’s being done to you).

Another example I’ve started to notice more as people have started to overuse “I” when trying to be correct is e.g. “Sarah and I’s feet were hurting after walking for miles”
this is far from the mark. It should be “Mine and Sarah’s feet…”

I think overuse is the biggest problem / trend emerging.

@Rabbitsandhabits

If you are talking about 'me and someone else', list the other person first.
'My husband and I' not 'Me and my husband'.
Ok now I’m getting confused all over again

'Me and my husband were talking about....' is incorrect
You wouldn't say 'Me was talking to DH about..'
It's more polite to list the other person first.

When you say something about you and someone, say it about just you, then add the other person.

'This happened to me' becomes 'This happened to DH and me'
'I did something' becomes My 'DH and I did something'.

**Apologies for using DH, but the late Queen used to start a speech with 'My husband and I', presumably to avoid starting with I.

Yes, the first one is grammatically correct but a lot of native English speakers would say the second, which is incorrect.

Similarly, He gave it to John and me. (He gave it to us) Correct.

He gave it to John and I. (He gave it to we) Incorrect.

If you would use I when talking about just you use I when talking about you and someone else eg
I did it,
Jane and I did it

If you would use me when just talking about yourself use me
Eg it was me, it was Jane and me.

A simple way is to take the rest of the sentence out.

‘Fred and I went to the shops’
’He gave a gift to my husband and me’

The order of the people doesn't actually matter grammatically. It is often thought to be more polite to put the other person first, but that's a stylistic thing, not a grammar thing.

The I/me is to do with subject/object, as others have explained. The test of using just one person is a good one.

And then once you've decided on I/me, then you can decide on the order of the people, and choose which you want to put first (often, but not always, the other person). But it is actually fine, grammatically, to say 'me and James' if it's a situation where 'me' is appropriate. 'James and me' would be more common, though. Same with "James and I" - if it's a sentence where 'I' is appropriate, you could actually use "I and James" if you wanted to, although "James and I" would be more common, and in some cases, more polite. But the order of people is a stylistic issue, not a grammar one.