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Original poster

UK benefits system - what would you change?

410 replies

Galactico · 06/01/2023 21:36

Just a bit of curiosity, really.

Many people agree that the benefits system isn’t fit for purpose now. Whether that be because they feel it’s too easy to get them and so there’s a lack of incentive to work for some people, or because people are subject to degrading assessments and the constant threat of being sanctioned/removed.

Any opinions?

OP posts:
Spikeyball · 13/01/2023 07:21

"I agree that benefits, all benefits should be paid in vouchers"

Pensions and child benefit as well. I'm sure people will like that.

I have a degree and had a professional role before my disabled son was born. I don't need vouchers or advice on how to spend carers or Dla.

SpacersChoice · 13/01/2023 07:23

I would stop pushing single mothers into work “once the child is in school” until every area has easily accessible, good quality school holiday childcare, that opens at 7:30am and closes at 6pm.

I’ve lived in two big Cities, small towns and now a rural village and it simply does not exist. The assumption that everyone has family to pitch in is very often incorrect, and who would agree to have a child/ren 12 weeks a year anyway?

When I have come across it, it’s football based, 9-3, costs £60, you have to provide drinks, snacks and lunch, and in an awkward area.

IClaudine · 13/01/2023 07:24

Funny how the OP never returned to their thread. If one was of a suspicious turn of mind one would think it was because they were a goady fucker who wanted to bring the benefit bashers out to play.

MN needs to so something about this. And the social housing goady fucker threads.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Benefits
SpacersChoice · 13/01/2023 07:29

defi · 06/01/2023 22:36

Change the 6k to 16k savings cap. Deters people to save for a mortgage

16K wouldn’t get me a 1 bed flat where I live, in a cheap Midlands area. I have 3DDs including a disabled one so obviously not an option to buy something that small.

It doesn’t deter me - it actively prevents me from buying a house. I would forever be in a cycle of hitting 16K then spending it on rent.

I worked out that, as a single parent, I’d need c£75K to clear what I’d need to buy somewhere ramshackle and not move my children again.

Beezknees · 13/01/2023 18:08

Citycentre3 · 12/01/2023 18:00

This is a joke right?

You are one of these people that think people that don't work should be given all that is going.

Believe me I would go on it if I could. People have it made literally. You must be extremely rich to be so sympathetic to the scroungers, to actually feel sorry for them? People like you actually exist? Wow!!

Show quote history

I get Universal Credit and work full time. I do not get ANYTHING free. I pay for school dinners, pay for dentist appointments, eye tests, etc. So am I a scrounger? Or am I just not paid enough wages to survive in this day and age?

Beezknees · 13/01/2023 18:11

JackieDaws · 12/01/2023 15:52

I agree that benefits, all benefits should be paid in vouchers, or a card that can only be used in certain shops, like Tesco for food, toiletries and household small goods, and Primark for clothes shies etc. Rent and utilities to be paid direct. The American SNAP and EBT systems work, and don't allow for junk food at all. Copies of Jack Monroes books should be issued to benefits people so they have a good idea of what's suitable for them to eat.

The voucher system may be a little more difficult for people claiming PIP. I understand that the mobility part is swapped for the car.

I work full time, I'm a grown adult, I've paid my rent and bills on time for 16 years, raised my child to a teenager with barely any help from his father. I don't need to be patronised and told what to spend my UC on. I know how to make healthy meals, thanks. Not everybody getting benefits is the same.

x2boys · 13/01/2023 18:17

Jellycatspyjamas · 13/01/2023 07:14

Lack of suitable childcare is a major reason why some parents of disabled children cannot work.

Especially as children get older and still need childcare due to disabilities.

I’ve been able to work while my daughter is in primary school, she’ll access specialist provision for high school and the transport arrangements mean it’s going to be very difficult for me to continue in my job after summer because I can’t get childcare that works in conjunction with the school/transport. I’m now having to completely rethink my working life post August.

Exactly ,my son is 13 in a few months but cognitively around 2/3 he cannot be left in his own like a typical 13 year old he needs 24/7 care I can't imagine any child minder willing to take him on .

Citycentre3 · 13/01/2023 18:22

Beezknees · 13/01/2023 18:11

I work full time, I'm a grown adult, I've paid my rent and bills on time for 16 years, raised my child to a teenager with barely any help from his father. I don't need to be patronised and told what to spend my UC on. I know how to make healthy meals, thanks. Not everybody getting benefits is the same.

Show quote history

What qualifies one person worthy of UC and another person not? Could it be one person was sensible saving their money, putting a deposit down for a house, not knowing further down the line they would be punished for it, because someone, somewhere on a similar wage decided that they would live it up, spend their wages, have an expensive smoking and alcohol habit, that society tells them it is "their human right" to have. Then because they lived so selfishly, they could declare themselves "poor" and "struggling" and be entitled to "handouts" while the poor sensible person is demonised but is still "struggling " to pay their ever increasing mortgage and fuel bills.

People don't like to admit it, but that is the crux of our benefit system. I know it is uncomfortable to admit, but for the majority that is how it is. For all of you on the Universal Credit gravy train. ENJOY!!

Cuppasoupmonster · 13/01/2023 19:09

There are definitely ways in which somebody can make broadly good decisions and still end up on UC while working FT.

But what does bother me is people who use UC as a way of propping up their chaotic lives as they lurch from one bad decision to another, or use it so they can work part time at the expense of everyone else.

It does frustrate me that half the population are almost like small children and need so much hand-holding, soft soaping and ‘support’ just to do what everyone else does. Or they use flimsy ‘mental health’ excuses, thinking they’re the only person suffering, when they’re not and many people in poor MH still get out of bed to work every day and prop them up.

The days of choosing to work part time and getting a hefty top up, or going on benefits because you’re ‘depressed’ have to stop. Life isn’t free; and working people certainly don’t have a jolly old time of it - effectively their trade off for 50 years of full time work is no longer an adequate house paid off after 20 years, a good pension and holidays. It’s living month to month and perhaps being able to choose the care home they die in at the end of theres equity in their house.

And when so many Mumsnetters say even those pensioners who didn’t work are ‘poverty stricken through no fault of their own’ and ‘should get the same treatment as everyone else’ then there’s no incentive is there? Who really is the mug? It’s not the people getting the lot for free while doing 15 hours admin work a week.

Beezknees · 13/01/2023 19:28

Citycentre3 · 13/01/2023 18:22

What qualifies one person worthy of UC and another person not? Could it be one person was sensible saving their money, putting a deposit down for a house, not knowing further down the line they would be punished for it, because someone, somewhere on a similar wage decided that they would live it up, spend their wages, have an expensive smoking and alcohol habit, that society tells them it is "their human right" to have. Then because they lived so selfishly, they could declare themselves "poor" and "struggling" and be entitled to "handouts" while the poor sensible person is demonised but is still "struggling " to pay their ever increasing mortgage and fuel bills.

People don't like to admit it, but that is the crux of our benefit system. I know it is uncomfortable to admit, but for the majority that is how it is. For all of you on the Universal Credit gravy train. ENJOY!!

Show quote history

What an absolute load of waffle. You clearly know nothing about UC.

Beezknees · 13/01/2023 19:32

Cuppasoupmonster · 13/01/2023 19:09

There are definitely ways in which somebody can make broadly good decisions and still end up on UC while working FT.

But what does bother me is people who use UC as a way of propping up their chaotic lives as they lurch from one bad decision to another, or use it so they can work part time at the expense of everyone else.

It does frustrate me that half the population are almost like small children and need so much hand-holding, soft soaping and ‘support’ just to do what everyone else does. Or they use flimsy ‘mental health’ excuses, thinking they’re the only person suffering, when they’re not and many people in poor MH still get out of bed to work every day and prop them up.

The days of choosing to work part time and getting a hefty top up, or going on benefits because you’re ‘depressed’ have to stop. Life isn’t free; and working people certainly don’t have a jolly old time of it - effectively their trade off for 50 years of full time work is no longer an adequate house paid off after 20 years, a good pension and holidays. It’s living month to month and perhaps being able to choose the care home they die in at the end of theres equity in their house.

And when so many Mumsnetters say even those pensioners who didn’t work are ‘poverty stricken through no fault of their own’ and ‘should get the same treatment as everyone else’ then there’s no incentive is there? Who really is the mug? It’s not the people getting the lot for free while doing 15 hours admin work a week.

People working part time are usually doing so because they are single parents and have no childcare. When the children are grown, the UC will stop, and they will be struggling. It's not a good lifestyle in the long term, and that's what people forget.

Tumbleweed101 · 13/01/2023 19:40

Increase the amount, no wait period as many people don't have back up money if they need help, no sanctions for things like missing an appointment especially if there is good reason why. Use modern technology so people don't travel miles for appointments when they struggle to afford the transport for a quick meeting. Genuine help rather than punishment.

XenoBitch · 13/01/2023 19:42

Citycentre3 · 13/01/2023 18:22

What qualifies one person worthy of UC and another person not? Could it be one person was sensible saving their money, putting a deposit down for a house, not knowing further down the line they would be punished for it, because someone, somewhere on a similar wage decided that they would live it up, spend their wages, have an expensive smoking and alcohol habit, that society tells them it is "their human right" to have. Then because they lived so selfishly, they could declare themselves "poor" and "struggling" and be entitled to "handouts" while the poor sensible person is demonised but is still "struggling " to pay their ever increasing mortgage and fuel bills.

People don't like to admit it, but that is the crux of our benefit system. I know it is uncomfortable to admit, but for the majority that is how it is. For all of you on the Universal Credit gravy train. ENJOY!!

Show quote history

You don't get UC based on what you spend your wages on. You get it based on what your wages are.

XenoBitch · 13/01/2023 19:44

Cuppasoupmonster · 13/01/2023 19:09

There are definitely ways in which somebody can make broadly good decisions and still end up on UC while working FT.

But what does bother me is people who use UC as a way of propping up their chaotic lives as they lurch from one bad decision to another, or use it so they can work part time at the expense of everyone else.

It does frustrate me that half the population are almost like small children and need so much hand-holding, soft soaping and ‘support’ just to do what everyone else does. Or they use flimsy ‘mental health’ excuses, thinking they’re the only person suffering, when they’re not and many people in poor MH still get out of bed to work every day and prop them up.

The days of choosing to work part time and getting a hefty top up, or going on benefits because you’re ‘depressed’ have to stop. Life isn’t free; and working people certainly don’t have a jolly old time of it - effectively their trade off for 50 years of full time work is no longer an adequate house paid off after 20 years, a good pension and holidays. It’s living month to month and perhaps being able to choose the care home they die in at the end of theres equity in their house.

And when so many Mumsnetters say even those pensioners who didn’t work are ‘poverty stricken through no fault of their own’ and ‘should get the same treatment as everyone else’ then there’s no incentive is there? Who really is the mug? It’s not the people getting the lot for free while doing 15 hours admin work a week.

Benefit and MH bashing. Nice. Who is going to employ someone who is unwell for at least 3 months of the year?

XenoBitch · 13/01/2023 19:48

Tumbleweed101 · 13/01/2023 19:40

Increase the amount, no wait period as many people don't have back up money if they need help, no sanctions for things like missing an appointment especially if there is good reason why. Use modern technology so people don't travel miles for appointments when they struggle to afford the transport for a quick meeting. Genuine help rather than punishment.

I agree!
There was a thread on here asking what Job Centres actually do. They used to actually help you find a job. Nowadays they are places you go to get judged and sanctioned. Instead of the boards covered in jobs, you have security guards.
People going to apply for UC, and coming away in tears. One lady was asked to drop her kid off with her mum so she could attend a job interview. Lady said mum was in a home with dementia, and the work coach told her to take her in anyway! Is ridiculous.

OverTheRubicon · 13/01/2023 20:06

@XenoBitch I do agree with you that some of the benefit bashing here is ridiculous - but assume that @Citycentre3 wasn't talking about wages, but about the fact that you don't get UC until you've run down your savings, and someone on UC who tries to save will end up penalised Vs someone on the exact same wage and UC who chooses to try to scrimp and save.

Beezknees · 13/01/2023 21:11

Also, you can claim benefits even if you are a homeowner! You just cannot claim the housing element.

XenoBitch · 13/01/2023 21:13

Beezknees · 13/01/2023 21:11

Also, you can claim benefits even if you are a homeowner! You just cannot claim the housing element.

Yeah, I know someone who owns her home outright and claims benefits. No housing element (as not needed anyway).
I am in a similar situation myself.

TangointhePark · 13/01/2023 21:37

What qualifies one person worthy of UC and another person not? Could it be one person was sensible saving their money, putting a deposit down for a house, not knowing further down the line they would be punished for it, because someone, somewhere on a similar wage decided that they would live it up, spend their wages, have an expensive smoking and alcohol habit, that society tells them it is "their human right" to have. Then because they lived so selfishly, they could declare themselves "poor" and "struggling" and be entitled to "handouts" while the poor sensible person is demonised

Or you work hard, develop your career, save to buy your home, build a nice life(and pay into the system for 20+ years. You then have a child with complex needs, your marriage breaks down due to the pressures of caring for said children, leaving you primary carer for your child with no way of working full time because no one will care for your child because their needs are too great.

You claim benefits so you can live, and care for your child, you have to fight for every scrap of support your child needs and you get labelled a scrounger into the bargain.

SpacersChoice · 13/01/2023 22:35

Tell me you know nothing about the benefits system without telling me…

Do you know how much money is owed by MEN in child support? In 2021, it was £1 MILLION A WEEK and a total of £441 MILLION OVERALL. Got men out there earning £1300 a month and don’t wanna hand over a mere £195 of it, which lets face it, covers fuck all.

Get angry at them - they’re financially abusing their children whilst their ex works part time because she can’t afford full time childcare, and he doesn’t see their child, etc.

A proper amount of child support that has real world consequences if it’s not paid.

elliejjtiny · 22/01/2023 16:59

Carers allowance should be more. And there should be some kind of extra allowance for those who care for more than one disabled person. The CSA need to get their act together too.

Florenz · 22/01/2023 17:11

No sanctions for missing appointments? So you make your claim, and get benefits paid for the rest of your life, regardless of what you do?

It's not particularly onerous to expect people to attend a meeting, on time, once every 2 weeks. Working people have to get to work on time every day, 5 days a week, every week. And then they have to do a days work once they get there!

Comefromaway · 22/01/2023 17:18

Florenz · 22/01/2023 17:11

No sanctions for missing appointments? So you make your claim, and get benefits paid for the rest of your life, regardless of what you do?

It's not particularly onerous to expect people to attend a meeting, on time, once every 2 weeks. Working people have to get to work on time every day, 5 days a week, every week. And then they have to do a days work once they get there!

No one said that.

but to get sanctioned for not being able to make appointments when you are actually meant to be at work (because many benefit claimants do actually work) or to a place where you can’t get public transport etc is ridiculous.

XenoBitch · 22/01/2023 17:27

Florenz · 22/01/2023 17:11

No sanctions for missing appointments? So you make your claim, and get benefits paid for the rest of your life, regardless of what you do?

It's not particularly onerous to expect people to attend a meeting, on time, once every 2 weeks. Working people have to get to work on time every day, 5 days a week, every week. And then they have to do a days work once they get there!

If you are getting sanctioned for missing appointments, then it means you are in the job seeking group... and claiming the huge sum of just over £70 per week.
No one would want to live off that for the reminder of their days.

WigglyGlowWorm · 22/01/2023 17:33

Everyone keeps throwing around UBI like it’s a wonderful thing. Where’s the money actually supposed to come from? Loads of people will just give up work so it won’t be from them, that’s for sure. Nice idea in theory but I just can’t see it working.